5 ms·

it’s not really though. The mushrooms evolved independently a neurotransmitter that also just happens to work on humans. Fungi and humans have a common ancestor

it’s not really though. The mushrooms evolved independently a neurotransmitter that also just happens to work on humans. Fungi and humans have a common ancestor roughly 450 million years ago. It’s also possible that they evolved this by accident and the mushrooms that were mostly successful got carried away further and reproduced more because of this secondary utilization humans had for them.

jlawson 5y ago
Not just humans - animals may respond to these compounds as well. Like humans, or in a different way.
wskish 5y ago
Terrance McKenna entertained us with the theory that psilocybin catalyzed human language "on the mushroom dotted plains of Africa". https://www.amazon.com/Food-Gods-Original-Knowledge-Evolution/dp/0553371304?tag=inverse03-20 https://www.amazon.com/Food-Gods-Original-Knowledge-Evolutio... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_McKenna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_McKenna https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdaMVuswNrg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdaMVuswNrg
- rantwasp 5y ago
  yup. The Stoned Ape theory.
- __blockcipher__ 5y ago
  The “stoned ape” theory is one of the dumbest theories ever invented. I say that as a big McKenna fan - he’s a great orator and very insightful, but his theory is very transparently a way to elevate the perceived importance of shrooms. There’s a common trip motif that shrooms make one “more human” and the “theory” is just a projection of that. Mechanistically it just doesn’t make any sense. The reason mushrooms make us trip is because there’s already a network there that they “talk” to (the 5ht_2a receptor system) And how exactly would non-linguistic animals suddenly gain linguistic ability? They better hope everyone around them is tripping on the perfect dose too otherwise they’re just gonna perceive it as meaningless babblimg
  - pmoriarty 5y ago
    "The reason mushrooms make us trip is because there’s already a network there that they “talk” to (the 5ht_2a receptor system)" But how does binding to the 5-HT[2A] receptor lead to, say, communing with one's dead mother, or to forgiveness of oneself or one's abusive father, or to a creative breakthrough on a problem you've been struggling with for months or years, or to an encounter with one's god, or to the realization that you/we are god, or to curing/treating depression or addiction, etc? These are open questions that science doesn't have very satisfying answers to yet.
    - __blockcipher__ 5y ago
      > These are open questions that science doesn't have very satisfying answers to yet. Agreed. — It’s nowhere near complete but one place to start is psychedelic (a) increase communication across/between disparate brain regions, (b) synchronize the various waves of brain activity into a single vibration, and (c) reduces the threshold at which pattern matching / classifier networks will fire (thus the increased visual acuity at small doses and pareidolia and other visual effects at high doses) I remember a study that explained (b), can’t remember anything else about it though :/ — EDIT: https://ai.googleblog.com/2015/06/inceptionism-going-deeper-into-neural.html?m=1 https://ai.googleblog.com/2015/06/inceptionism-going-deeper-... is also great to think about. DeepDream produces very psychedelic images and the bit about reversing the network and having it recurse on pattern matching its on output to “massage” the raw input into alignment with a schema (akin to feeding output back into input) is very relevant
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - rantwasp 5y ago
      they sort of are open. your brain is basically a interpreting and predicting the world 24/7. it work by making meaning of what it perceives. a flood of a neurotransmitter basically alters the way the brain works and whatever experience you have is your brain trying to make senses of the new and unexpected electrochemical activity. you are not communicating with your dead mother or you are not being a god. it works for depression because it allows the brain to exercise and form neural pathways that are not normally allowed. even if we think about the brain as one organ, in reality there are a lot of interconnected neural nets that are regulated by a central supervisory net called the DMN. Under psychedelics, the DMN shuts down while the other networks increase activity.
- Trasmatta 5y ago
  The Stoned Ape theory is a prime example of a phenomenon I've noticed where frequent users of psilocybin begin attributing all sorts of miracles to mushrooms. Everything becomes explained by mushrooms. I've seen it happen in person and online. It's a bit bizarre.
  - 01100011 5y ago
    It's almost as if they were ingesting a substance which altered their thinking... Look, I seriously love shrooms. I stopped everything else, especially weed with all of its subtly negative effects which creep up over time, and do frequent mushroom trips and occasional light dose of alcohol. That said, I find it funny when people do a drug that alters their thinking and perceptions on such a deep level but draw a line at where they think those effects begin and end as if the brain/mind was ever that clearly compartmentalized.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

jlawson 5y ago

Not just humans - animals may respond to these compounds as well. Like humans, or in a different way.

wskish 5y ago

Terrance McKenna entertained us with the theory that psilocybin catalyzed human language "on the mushroom dotted plains of Africa". https://www.amazon.com/Food-Gods-Original-Knowledge-Evolution/dp/0553371304?tag=inverse03-20 https://www.amazon.com/Food-Gods-Original-Knowledge-Evolutio... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_McKenna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_McKenna https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdaMVuswNrg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdaMVuswNrg

rantwasp 5y ago
yup. The Stoned Ape theory.
__blockcipher__ 5y ago
The “stoned ape” theory is one of the dumbest theories ever invented. I say that as a big McKenna fan - he’s a great orator and very insightful, but his theory is very transparently a way to elevate the perceived importance of shrooms. There’s a common trip motif that shrooms make one “more human” and the “theory” is just a projection of that. Mechanistically it just doesn’t make any sense. The reason mushrooms make us trip is because there’s already a network there that they “talk” to (the 5ht_2a receptor system) And how exactly would non-linguistic animals suddenly gain linguistic ability? They better hope everyone around them is tripping on the perfect dose too otherwise they’re just gonna perceive it as meaningless babblimg
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  "The reason mushrooms make us trip is because there’s already a network there that they “talk” to (the 5ht_2a receptor system)" But how does binding to the 5-HT[2A] receptor lead to, say, communing with one's dead mother, or to forgiveness of oneself or one's abusive father, or to a creative breakthrough on a problem you've been struggling with for months or years, or to an encounter with one's god, or to the realization that you/we are god, or to curing/treating depression or addiction, etc? These are open questions that science doesn't have very satisfying answers to yet.
  - __blockcipher__ 5y ago
    > These are open questions that science doesn't have very satisfying answers to yet. Agreed. — It’s nowhere near complete but one place to start is psychedelic (a) increase communication across/between disparate brain regions, (b) synchronize the various waves of brain activity into a single vibration, and (c) reduces the threshold at which pattern matching / classifier networks will fire (thus the increased visual acuity at small doses and pareidolia and other visual effects at high doses) I remember a study that explained (b), can’t remember anything else about it though :/ — EDIT: https://ai.googleblog.com/2015/06/inceptionism-going-deeper-into-neural.html?m=1 https://ai.googleblog.com/2015/06/inceptionism-going-deeper-... is also great to think about. DeepDream produces very psychedelic images and the bit about reversing the network and having it recurse on pattern matching its on output to “massage” the raw input into alignment with a schema (akin to feeding output back into input) is very relevant
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - rantwasp 5y ago
    they sort of are open. your brain is basically a interpreting and predicting the world 24/7. it work by making meaning of what it perceives. a flood of a neurotransmitter basically alters the way the brain works and whatever experience you have is your brain trying to make senses of the new and unexpected electrochemical activity. you are not communicating with your dead mother or you are not being a god. it works for depression because it allows the brain to exercise and form neural pathways that are not normally allowed. even if we think about the brain as one organ, in reality there are a lot of interconnected neural nets that are regulated by a central supervisory net called the DMN. Under psychedelics, the DMN shuts down while the other networks increase activity.
Trasmatta 5y ago
The Stoned Ape theory is a prime example of a phenomenon I've noticed where frequent users of psilocybin begin attributing all sorts of miracles to mushrooms. Everything becomes explained by mushrooms. I've seen it happen in person and online. It's a bit bizarre.
- 01100011 5y ago
  It's almost as if they were ingesting a substance which altered their thinking... Look, I seriously love shrooms. I stopped everything else, especially weed with all of its subtly negative effects which creep up over time, and do frequent mushroom trips and occasional light dose of alcohol. That said, I find it funny when people do a drug that alters their thinking and perceptions on such a deep level but draw a line at where they think those effects begin and end as if the brain/mind was ever that clearly compartmentalized.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]