5 ms·

Benefits: 24/7, lower fees, less financial incumbent insiders front running your trades, less retail traders giving data of their every move to financial incumb

Benefits: 24/7, lower fees, less financial incumbent insiders front running your trades, less retail traders giving data of their every move to financial incumbent insiders, privacy. I think this'll be adopted widely in the near-future by savvy traders. It benefits the little guys. And I look forward to the day companies preferably issue equity directly atop decentralized networks - under what legal framework and/or sovereignty is yet to be determined.

arcticbull 5y ago
Not in America they won't lol, it's illegal. In fact it's illegal for US persons to trade securities out of a non-SEC regulated brokerage account. See Regulation S. Isn't the new monetization strategy in crypto literally to reorder blocks and front-run transactions due to the massive time quanta? How exactly do you think the NBBO rule is to be implemented? [1] The little guys as always are the most likely to get hurt. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/nbbo.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/nbbo.asp
- elevenoh 5y ago
  >Not in America they won't lol, it's illegal. In fact it's illegal for US persons to trade securities out of a non-SEC regulated brokerage account Is this comment referring companies issuing equity directly on-chain? Of course it's currently illegal. That doesn't mean it's illegal in all global jurisdictions or that savvy traders won't find a way to have financial liberty, even if it means moving countries/jurisdictions, opening up a corporation elsewhere etc.. >Isn't the new monetization strategy in crypto literally to reorder blocks and front-run transactions due to the massive time quanta? What a disingenuous way to frame the concept of MEV.. That's quite an unobjective bias you have. >The little guys as always are the most likely to get hurt. The little guys are most likely to get hurt when there's a lack of transparency. In an internet age with transparent tools, the little guys should have freedom with accountability (e.g. they can't even invest in startups).
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Why would we voluntarily give up the security afforded by the SEC? The front-running thing is literal observable fact. If you know what transactions are to be included in the next block, and you're in charge of ordering them on a multi-minute timeframe, and you know pricing on exchanges in real-time why would you not take advantage? Why would you not front run? There's no law stopping you is there? > The little guys are most likely to get hurt when there's a lack of transparency. In an internet age with transparent tools, the little guys should have freedom with accountability (e.g. they can't even invest in startups). Which is exactly the issue with the blockchain. You're given a peek at the chain but that's not what matters.
    - elevenoh 5y ago
      >If you know what transactions are to be included in the next block, and you're in charge of ordering them on a multi-minute timeframe, and you know pricing on exchanges in real-time why would you not take advantage? Why would you not front run? There's no law stopping you is there? Check out time-lock encryption, auctioning transaction order rights, or Automata's conveyor service etc. There's some powerful ideas floating around to bring MEV to negligible levels. This is the beauty of crypto: users will flow to the most efficient blockchain. If MEV is their primary concern, they'll flow to that which nullifies it :)
      - arcticbull 5y ago
        Bitcoin is the world's least efficient blockchain, so how is it the largest? I suspect people flock to the number-go-uppest blockchain.
        elevenoh 5y ago
        There's a lot involved in market dynamics - BTC or otherwise :)
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- anonymoushn 5y ago
  It will not be implemented, of course. But it's a bit interesting to bring up MEV and the NBBO rule together. The situation in the US is that retail order flow is goes to wholesalers, and wholesalers subscribe to the SIP feed (which is substantially delayed) and the direct feeds from venues, and they can decide whether they want to offer price improvement compared to the *delayed SIP feed* based on the more recent data from the direct feeds. It doesn't seem like retail is getting a great deal in that situation.
notahacker 5y ago
If you think this is a good idea, I'm happy to sell you and other "savvy traders" the Brooklyn Bridge. Benefits: no intermediaries and absolutely no money wasted on lawyers or due diligence. Drawbacks: you don't have a bridge, or even an option on one.
- elevenoh 5y ago
  No one is saying no intermediaries, and certainly no one is saying no due dilligence though.. Optimal intermediaries emerge as a response to market conditions. Some are fine with the current financial industry intermediaries. Some aren't. Voice & exit. In the near future we'll have other crypto-afforded options to 'exit' to.
tablespoon 5y ago
> Benefits: 24/7, lower fees, less financial incumbent insiders front running your trades, less retail traders giving data of their every move to financial incumbent insiders, privacy. The same can be said of monopoly money.

arcticbull 5y ago

Not in America they won't lol, it's illegal. In fact it's illegal for US persons to trade securities out of a non-SEC regulated brokerage account. See Regulation S. Isn't the new monetization strategy in crypto literally to reorder blocks and front-run transactions due to the massive time quanta? How exactly do you think the NBBO rule is to be implemented? [1] The little guys as always are the most likely to get hurt. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/nbbo.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/nbbo.asp

elevenoh 5y ago
>Not in America they won't lol, it's illegal. In fact it's illegal for US persons to trade securities out of a non-SEC regulated brokerage account Is this comment referring companies issuing equity directly on-chain? Of course it's currently illegal. That doesn't mean it's illegal in all global jurisdictions or that savvy traders won't find a way to have financial liberty, even if it means moving countries/jurisdictions, opening up a corporation elsewhere etc.. >Isn't the new monetization strategy in crypto literally to reorder blocks and front-run transactions due to the massive time quanta? What a disingenuous way to frame the concept of MEV.. That's quite an unobjective bias you have. >The little guys as always are the most likely to get hurt. The little guys are most likely to get hurt when there's a lack of transparency. In an internet age with transparent tools, the little guys should have freedom with accountability (e.g. they can't even invest in startups).
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Why would we voluntarily give up the security afforded by the SEC? The front-running thing is literal observable fact. If you know what transactions are to be included in the next block, and you're in charge of ordering them on a multi-minute timeframe, and you know pricing on exchanges in real-time why would you not take advantage? Why would you not front run? There's no law stopping you is there? > The little guys are most likely to get hurt when there's a lack of transparency. In an internet age with transparent tools, the little guys should have freedom with accountability (e.g. they can't even invest in startups). Which is exactly the issue with the blockchain. You're given a peek at the chain but that's not what matters.
  - elevenoh 5y ago
    >If you know what transactions are to be included in the next block, and you're in charge of ordering them on a multi-minute timeframe, and you know pricing on exchanges in real-time why would you not take advantage? Why would you not front run? There's no law stopping you is there? Check out time-lock encryption, auctioning transaction order rights, or Automata's conveyor service etc. There's some powerful ideas floating around to bring MEV to negligible levels. This is the beauty of crypto: users will flow to the most efficient blockchain. If MEV is their primary concern, they'll flow to that which nullifies it :)
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      Bitcoin is the world's least efficient blockchain, so how is it the largest? I suspect people flock to the number-go-uppest blockchain.
      - elevenoh 5y ago
        There's a lot involved in market dynamics - BTC or otherwise :)
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
anonymoushn 5y ago
It will not be implemented, of course. But it's a bit interesting to bring up MEV and the NBBO rule together. The situation in the US is that retail order flow is goes to wholesalers, and wholesalers subscribe to the SIP feed (which is substantially delayed) and the direct feeds from venues, and they can decide whether they want to offer price improvement compared to the *delayed SIP feed* based on the more recent data from the direct feeds. It doesn't seem like retail is getting a great deal in that situation.

notahacker 5y ago

If you think this is a good idea, I'm happy to sell you and other "savvy traders" the Brooklyn Bridge. Benefits: no intermediaries and absolutely no money wasted on lawyers or due diligence. Drawbacks: you don't have a bridge, or even an option on one.

elevenoh 5y ago
No one is saying no intermediaries, and certainly no one is saying no due dilligence though.. Optimal intermediaries emerge as a response to market conditions. Some are fine with the current financial industry intermediaries. Some aren't. Voice & exit. In the near future we'll have other crypto-afforded options to 'exit' to.

tablespoon 5y ago

> Benefits: 24/7, lower fees, less financial incumbent insiders front running your trades, less retail traders giving data of their every move to financial incumbent insiders, privacy. The same can be said of monopoly money.