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Back in the banking crisis days, I applied for a mortgage modification. I’m on top of paperwork and fax like a boss, so I made sure all of our documentation was

Back in the banking crisis days, I applied for a mortgage modification. I’m on top of paperwork and fax like a boss, so I made sure all of our documentation was in order and submitted ahead of schedule. Regardless, the bank tried to use every trick in the book to delay. I ended up war dialing all the extensions around my contact to find someone who worked there with access to my files to push it along. Ended up succeeding and receiving my modification. Imagine trying that with google or Facebook or chime. I don’t agree with the need for physical violence. Historically, we have had decent regulatory protections for customers. I feel like those protections are rapidly being eroded. The threat of reporting to the bank/insurance/etc regulator was real and triggered a response even in the most dense bureaucracies in my experience. Best story ever along these lines is when an angry homeowner who was wrongfully foreclosed upon ended up suing the bank, winning, then foreclosing on her local branch when they neglected to pay: https://abcnews.go.com/Business/bank-america-florida-foreclosed-angry-homeowner-bofa/story?id=13775638 https://abcnews.go.com/Business/bank-america-florida-foreclo...

wyager 5y ago
I think this is illustrative of my point; only the most well-equipped people (lawyers, people who know how to wardial, etc.) have any chance of grappling with the kafkaesque bullshit of modern corporate bureaucracy. If amazon wrongs you, you're fucked. If a shopkeeper wrongs you, you can go yell at the shopkeeper. I don't know if there's any legal framework that can fix this. I even have to admit that it might not be socially optimal to fix this.
- perl4ever 5y ago
  >If a shopkeeper wrongs you, you can go yell at the shopkeeper So, go buy your appliances from a local store, not Amazon or Lowe's or Home Depot. Do you, or do you not do that? Because you can totally do that.
  - wyager 5y ago
    When I can. Not for this reason, though - just because I don’t trust Amazon not to send me something used or a fake or something.
- ipython 5y ago
  I didn’t learn this by being smart or well-to-do; this is the sort of guerrilla warfare that my working class father taught me. Street smarts take you far in life. Also I think we have lost something when decisions are made far away from the consequences. If there is a decision made in SF that affects a population in Wichita, where the company has no ties or physical presence, it’s hard to empathize on either end. A lot of commerce depended on trust between parties that could see face to face. That’s sorely missing these days.
sbierwagen 5y ago
>I don’t agree with the need for physical violence. Historically, we have had decent regulatory protections for customers. “When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force, my friends, is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived.” Regulatory protections certainly didn't arise from the void. If you trace them back the New Deal agencies, then you have to consider the widespread violence that forced their creation.
- ipython 5y ago
  So, saying to an insurance company that you feel has wronged you - I am registering a complaint with the state insurance commission- is equivalent to physical violence? I’m sorry but that strains credulity.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

wyager 5y ago

I think this is illustrative of my point; only the most well-equipped people (lawyers, people who know how to wardial, etc.) have any chance of grappling with the kafkaesque bullshit of modern corporate bureaucracy. If amazon wrongs you, you're fucked. If a shopkeeper wrongs you, you can go yell at the shopkeeper. I don't know if there's any legal framework that can fix this. I even have to admit that it might not be socially optimal to fix this.

perl4ever 5y ago
>If a shopkeeper wrongs you, you can go yell at the shopkeeper So, go buy your appliances from a local store, not Amazon or Lowe's or Home Depot. Do you, or do you not do that? Because you can totally do that.
- wyager 5y ago
  When I can. Not for this reason, though - just because I don’t trust Amazon not to send me something used or a fake or something.
ipython 5y ago
I didn’t learn this by being smart or well-to-do; this is the sort of guerrilla warfare that my working class father taught me. Street smarts take you far in life. Also I think we have lost something when decisions are made far away from the consequences. If there is a decision made in SF that affects a population in Wichita, where the company has no ties or physical presence, it’s hard to empathize on either end. A lot of commerce depended on trust between parties that could see face to face. That’s sorely missing these days.

sbierwagen 5y ago

>I don’t agree with the need for physical violence. Historically, we have had decent regulatory protections for customers. “When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force, my friends, is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived.” Regulatory protections certainly didn't arise from the void. If you trace them back the New Deal agencies, then you have to consider the widespread violence that forced their creation.

ipython 5y ago
So, saying to an insurance company that you feel has wronged you - I am registering a complaint with the state insurance commission- is equivalent to physical violence? I’m sorry but that strains credulity.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]