5 ms·

Marfa is in the middle of nowhere, the jobs seem to be of the landscaper/service industry type unless you are arriving with money from somewhere else. Sounds m

by qdog 5y ago

Marfa is in the middle of nowhere, the jobs seem to be of the landscaper/service industry type unless you are arriving with money from somewhere else. Sounds more like a touristy set of rich estates at this point, I expect the laborers live in the surrounding area and drive into town just like a large city. I did some labor during HS and in the summer it was driving 20-40 miles from our small town in nowhere Texas for the jobs we did. During the early 80's oil boom there were several small towns in Texas that kinda looked like OP's model, but once the boom went to bust they started dying and never recovered. Probably around the Austin area in the 60's a lot of places looked more idyllic (there were no stoplights between downtown Austin and I think Lampasas at that point), but it's all sprawled out and become a Metropolis at this point. Not clear that any sufficiently attractive area would not end up being encompassed in suburbia or a high-end enclave (Westlake by Austin comes to mind).

thebradbain 5y ago
Eh, I don't know about that re: Marfa demographics. There's certainly been tension about property values forcing some out of town -- but the town is still majority Hispanic (67%) and the median household income is $39k. It's got attractiveness to tourists driving up property values, but it is very much still a real town with real people. https://datausa.io/profile/geo/marfa-tx/ https://datausa.io/profile/geo/marfa-tx/
- qdog 5y ago
  I mean the people paying $150,000 for a lot in Marfa (looking at listing on Zillow) are probably not locals from those $39k income households. Perversely, the way property taxes in Texas work, this likely means that anyone under 65 is watching the property taxes climb faster than their income, increasing pressure to sell and move to a cheaper property. It's a real town, but the service folks are largely priced out at this point (although I'd expect this real estate bubble might not last as there might not be that many people willing to buy at Austin prices in Marfa).
  - lmm 5y ago
    > Perversely, the way property taxes in Texas work, this likely means that anyone under 65 is watching the property taxes climb faster than their income, increasing pressure to sell and move to a cheaper property. What's perverse about that? When there's suddenly high demand for a limited housing supply, we should encourage those who happened to randomly live in a particular place to consider selling to those who especially want to live in that place.
    - qdog 5y ago
      If you look a the overhead map of Marfa, you'll see it isn't particularly land constrained. However, people living in trailer houses on small lots in town are seeing their taxes go up, so they eventually have to move. Also perversely, the land around there you see with cows or crops on it is almost assuredly in an agricultural tax exemption status, so the excess land has little pressure to be sold for new housing. It's perverse because it effectively forces poorer people to sell to rich people. I will also note Texas has a homestead exemption, originating in 1876, so this is a well-known issue. It does not appear to be inflation or value indexed, and does not provide relief to low-income people when their house suddenly appreciates. There is a limit on how much the appraisal goes up every year, but it's certainly more than wage growth. Regardless, the point is OP's ideal town this is not, the people moving there are not moving for the local jobs and economy in a nice little town. The incomes certainly don't support the high house prices.
      - lmm 5y ago
        If you own a house that's become so valuable, you're already above the median. Exempting rich people from taxes so that they don't have to sell to even richer people doesn't seem like a good policy to me. Any kind of tax makes it easier to be richer than poorer, that's just life. I'd agree that the agricultural exemption is perverse (as is the whole notion of taxing property value rather than unimproved land value - but ad-hoc exemptions aren't the way to fix that).
    - glangdale 5y ago
      I'm finding it remarkable that people getting chased out of houses they've lived for years - maybe all their lives - by property taxes is "non perverse". Bonus points for using the phrase "happened to randomly live". I mean, the whole sentimentalism about people's hometowns can be taken a bit far, but seriously? HN comments like this put me in mind of that great quote: "All of us have sufficient fortitude to bear the misfortunes of others." -Francois de La Rochefoucauld
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
advertising 5y ago
Judd made Marfa and died before it ever became what it was today. Secretive group of artists and the like came later and in the end, all good towns need an industry and Marfa’s real industry is tourism of people coming to see the art and related art that has sprung up. Even terralingua has a restaurant with a two hour wait now. Tourism is the only real driver of a small town booming imo. Marfa also does not have a lot of services that are needed for anyone older than 50, like a hospital.
- nyolfen 5y ago
  a friend from the area insists that judd was involved in drug trafficking and that the (frankly mundane) art was a pretense or money laundering mechanism. i've spent time in the region and it is not difficult to spot people who are obviously involved. the same friend's relative was recently interviewed for a soon-to-be-released podcast about the former sheriff of presidio, who was recently released from a multi-decade bid for bringing heroin over the border in his official trailer and putting it on trains hauling cattle feed to houston: https://www.presidiosheriff.com/ https://www.presidiosheriff.com/

by qdog 5y ago

thebradbain 5y ago

Eh, I don't know about that re: Marfa demographics. There's certainly been tension about property values forcing some out of town -- but the town is still majority Hispanic (67%) and the median household income is $39k. It's got attractiveness to tourists driving up property values, but it is very much still a real town with real people. https://datausa.io/profile/geo/marfa-tx/ https://datausa.io/profile/geo/marfa-tx/

qdog 5y ago
I mean the people paying $150,000 for a lot in Marfa (looking at listing on Zillow) are probably not locals from those $39k income households. Perversely, the way property taxes in Texas work, this likely means that anyone under 65 is watching the property taxes climb faster than their income, increasing pressure to sell and move to a cheaper property. It's a real town, but the service folks are largely priced out at this point (although I'd expect this real estate bubble might not last as there might not be that many people willing to buy at Austin prices in Marfa).
- lmm 5y ago
  > Perversely, the way property taxes in Texas work, this likely means that anyone under 65 is watching the property taxes climb faster than their income, increasing pressure to sell and move to a cheaper property. What's perverse about that? When there's suddenly high demand for a limited housing supply, we should encourage those who happened to randomly live in a particular place to consider selling to those who especially want to live in that place.
  - qdog 5y ago
    If you look a the overhead map of Marfa, you'll see it isn't particularly land constrained. However, people living in trailer houses on small lots in town are seeing their taxes go up, so they eventually have to move. Also perversely, the land around there you see with cows or crops on it is almost assuredly in an agricultural tax exemption status, so the excess land has little pressure to be sold for new housing. It's perverse because it effectively forces poorer people to sell to rich people. I will also note Texas has a homestead exemption, originating in 1876, so this is a well-known issue. It does not appear to be inflation or value indexed, and does not provide relief to low-income people when their house suddenly appreciates. There is a limit on how much the appraisal goes up every year, but it's certainly more than wage growth. Regardless, the point is OP's ideal town this is not, the people moving there are not moving for the local jobs and economy in a nice little town. The incomes certainly don't support the high house prices.
    - lmm 5y ago
      If you own a house that's become so valuable, you're already above the median. Exempting rich people from taxes so that they don't have to sell to even richer people doesn't seem like a good policy to me. Any kind of tax makes it easier to be richer than poorer, that's just life. I'd agree that the agricultural exemption is perverse (as is the whole notion of taxing property value rather than unimproved land value - but ad-hoc exemptions aren't the way to fix that).
  - glangdale 5y ago
    I'm finding it remarkable that people getting chased out of houses they've lived for years - maybe all their lives - by property taxes is "non perverse". Bonus points for using the phrase "happened to randomly live". I mean, the whole sentimentalism about people's hometowns can be taken a bit far, but seriously? HN comments like this put me in mind of that great quote: "All of us have sufficient fortitude to bear the misfortunes of others." -Francois de La Rochefoucauld

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

advertising 5y ago

Judd made Marfa and died before it ever became what it was today. Secretive group of artists and the like came later and in the end, all good towns need an industry and Marfa’s real industry is tourism of people coming to see the art and related art that has sprung up. Even terralingua has a restaurant with a two hour wait now. Tourism is the only real driver of a small town booming imo. Marfa also does not have a lot of services that are needed for anyone older than 50, like a hospital.

nyolfen 5y ago
a friend from the area insists that judd was involved in drug trafficking and that the (frankly mundane) art was a pretense or money laundering mechanism. i've spent time in the region and it is not difficult to spot people who are obviously involved. the same friend's relative was recently interviewed for a soon-to-be-released podcast about the former sheriff of presidio, who was recently released from a multi-decade bid for bringing heroin over the border in his official trailer and putting it on trains hauling cattle feed to houston: https://www.presidiosheriff.com/ https://www.presidiosheriff.com/