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> For Chat tg/signal seem like they would but I am less sure what the best option is for email. Something that doesn't store the chats in a decryptable form on

> For Chat tg/signal seem like they would but I am less sure what the best option is for email. Something that doesn't store the chats in a decryptable form on their servers is probably preferrable. So Telegram out and Signal, Threema or WhatsApp in.

eitland 5y ago
Friendly reminder that WhatsApp is far out: it uploads all data unencrypted to at least one cloud if on of the participants have backups enabled. So Signal, Matrix or possible Threema (I don't know it) is in. Personally though, I use Telegram and I drive an ordinary car, not an armored one.
- nybble41 5y ago
  No matter which chat service you use, any recipient could potentially upload the unencrypted data to a cloud backup service. If you don't trust the intended recipients with the data then you shouldn't share it with them in the first place.
  - eitland 5y ago
    Have my upvote. This is a great - and often forgotten I think - point. I guess my point is that in WhatsApp it is so easy to stumble into doing it, and that it sends it directly to the cloud. For clarification: I'm certainly annoyed at Google for a number of reasons, but I don't think their security record is worse than everyone else's. Quite the contrary.
sorenjan 5y ago
Telegram supports E2E encrypted secret chats. https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-are-secret-chats-different https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-are-secret-chats-different
- iknowstuff 5y ago
  Which noone uses. Even Facebook Messenger supports "secret chats". Telegram is not secure.
  - sorenjan 5y ago
    I don't know what kind of usage numbers their secret chats have, but if that's the case maybe that's a sign most people prefer the convenience of non E2E chats to the security of E2E? And if someone is just a tiny bit interested and motivated the secret chats are there if they want them. In fact, I'd argue that it's better to use encrypted chats in a common chat client than having to explain why you use a specific encrypted client if you ever find yourself in a situation where that's necessary, like a border crossing or police interaction.
- fsflover 5y ago
  Except on desktop and on GNU/Linux phones.
collaborative 5y ago
A bit of self-promotion, why not: also Collaborative Groups in :-P

eitland 5y ago

Friendly reminder that WhatsApp is far out: it uploads all data unencrypted to at least one cloud if on of the participants have backups enabled. So Signal, Matrix or possible Threema (I don't know it) is in. Personally though, I use Telegram and I drive an ordinary car, not an armored one.

nybble41 5y ago
No matter which chat service you use, any recipient could potentially upload the unencrypted data to a cloud backup service. If you don't trust the intended recipients with the data then you shouldn't share it with them in the first place.
- eitland 5y ago
  Have my upvote. This is a great - and often forgotten I think - point. I guess my point is that in WhatsApp it is so easy to stumble into doing it, and that it sends it directly to the cloud. For clarification: I'm certainly annoyed at Google for a number of reasons, but I don't think their security record is worse than everyone else's. Quite the contrary.

sorenjan 5y ago

Telegram supports E2E encrypted secret chats. https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-are-secret-chats-different https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-are-secret-chats-different

iknowstuff 5y ago
Which noone uses. Even Facebook Messenger supports "secret chats". Telegram is not secure.
- sorenjan 5y ago
  I don't know what kind of usage numbers their secret chats have, but if that's the case maybe that's a sign most people prefer the convenience of non E2E chats to the security of E2E? And if someone is just a tiny bit interested and motivated the secret chats are there if they want them. In fact, I'd argue that it's better to use encrypted chats in a common chat client than having to explain why you use a specific encrypted client if you ever find yourself in a situation where that's necessary, like a border crossing or police interaction.
fsflover 5y ago
Except on desktop and on GNU/Linux phones.

collaborative 5y ago

A bit of self-promotion, why not: also Collaborative Groups in :-P