4 ms·

Reading Like a Roman

42 points by diodorus 5y ago

chasil 5y ago
I read a verse translation of the Aenead decades ago, and I remember best the fall of Troy, as Aeneas carried his father out of the burning city. Knowing little of Homer before I began reading, at last I had found the fate of Troy. Memorable also was "Turnus fleeing to the unconsenting shades below," the abrupt end of the Aenead. Perhaps, some day, I might read it again.
- gumby 5y ago
  All I really remember from high school was that it was more exciting than Julius Caesar but less fun than, say, Plautus, much of which I do remember, rather surprisingly. I suspect with the addition of 40 years that Virgil would resonate more now than the others. The other text that has remained vivid over the years is Plutarch; the painful homework of translation is thankfully forgotten.
- gpderetta 5y ago
  Timeo danaos et dona ferentes
benreesman 5y ago
Not being a historian myself I can’t speak to the academic pedigree, but as an interested layman I will say that “How the Irish Saved Civilization” by Cahill makes this stuff come alive: at worst it’s a good yarn and at best there might be some real history in there. I will point out that it’s every bit as much about late classical Rome as it is about Ireland, maybe more. I’d benefit from the perspective of legitimate scholars in this area.
- Bayart 5y ago
  As an absolutely illegitimate scholar, but a former history major who's kept with Early Middle Ages papers nonetheless, the claim that Ireland by its lonesome saved civilization (not just the Western one !) is silly. Its underlying postulate is that (Western) civilization was for all intents and purposes gone from the continent under the foot of the unwashed barbarian masses. That's an idea that was popularized by Gibbon and remained popular to this day in the English-speaking world, but it doesn't have much currency with serious historians of the Late Roman / Early Medieval world. If anything the Franks should get the credit for making Western Europe Nicean. There would be no Irish monks and missionaries in Gaul without it (which is what the whole book starts from). The Goths also had an active hand in keeping Roman institutions around. Ireland happened to be a repository of expertise for proselytism when it was needed by the policies of Western monarchs. What led to that, and the way Ireland became Christian without ever being part of the Roman world, that is to say while keeping their cultural institutions that went back as far as the Bronze Age in all likelihood, is the more fascinating aspect in my opinion.

42 points by diodorus 5y ago

I read a verse translation of the Aenead decades ago, and I remember best the fall of Troy, as Aeneas carried his father out of the burning city. Knowing little of Homer before I began reading, at last I had found the fate of Troy. Memorable also was "Turnus fleeing to the unconsenting shades below," the abrupt end of the Aenead. Perhaps, some day, I might read it again.

gumby 5y ago
All I really remember from high school was that it was more exciting than Julius Caesar but less fun than, say, Plautus, much of which I do remember, rather surprisingly. I suspect with the addition of 40 years that Virgil would resonate more now than the others. The other text that has remained vivid over the years is Plutarch; the painful homework of translation is thankfully forgotten.
gpderetta 5y ago
Timeo danaos et dona ferentes

benreesman 5y ago

Not being a historian myself I can’t speak to the academic pedigree, but as an interested layman I will say that “How the Irish Saved Civilization” by Cahill makes this stuff come alive: at worst it’s a good yarn and at best there might be some real history in there. I will point out that it’s every bit as much about late classical Rome as it is about Ireland, maybe more. I’d benefit from the perspective of legitimate scholars in this area.

Bayart 5y ago
As an absolutely illegitimate scholar, but a former history major who's kept with Early Middle Ages papers nonetheless, the claim that Ireland by its lonesome saved civilization (not just the Western one !) is silly. Its underlying postulate is that (Western) civilization was for all intents and purposes gone from the continent under the foot of the unwashed barbarian masses. That's an idea that was popularized by Gibbon and remained popular to this day in the English-speaking world, but it doesn't have much currency with serious historians of the Late Roman / Early Medieval world. If anything the Franks should get the credit for making Western Europe Nicean. There would be no Irish monks and missionaries in Gaul without it (which is what the whole book starts from). The Goths also had an active hand in keeping Roman institutions around. Ireland happened to be a repository of expertise for proselytism when it was needed by the policies of Western monarchs. What led to that, and the way Ireland became Christian without ever being part of the Roman world, that is to say while keeping their cultural institutions that went back as far as the Bronze Age in all likelihood, is the more fascinating aspect in my opinion.