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Alright, now explain why I should pay them $200 (or more) for a half-hour consultation where they parrot something google could have told me and fill out a form

Alright, now explain why I should pay them $200 (or more) for a half-hour consultation where they parrot something google could have told me and fill out a form in Epic? I'm with parent, unless you have a lot of time and money to spend, or an obvious problem like a broken leg, doctors aren't worth very much.

deckard1 5y ago
> they parrot something google could have told me anecdote time... went to the doctor once about an issue. She started typing into the computer. I caught a glimpse and she was literally scrolling through a Google image search, looking for a match. That's the catch-22 with professional help. You need to hire a lawyer to help keep you out of trouble or solve your business problems. But since you're not a lawyer yourself, you can't judge the quality of the work. You're at the mercy of Yelp-like reputation systems or, possibly worse, recommendations from friends and people you know.
- SllX 5y ago
  Heh. That Google Image search was probably a substitute for some chart already in the office, possibly gathering dust.
  - deckard1 5y ago
    hopefully that. Because I shudder to think that some doctor is going to take Google's results at face value. It's the Gell-Mann Amnesia. Every once in awhile I see one of those Google instant answer boxes on a search that I know is total BS. But then I go and pretend like the next dozen searches I do are perfectly reasonable results.
    - Jtsummers 5y ago
      I always enjoy the ones that read something like: What is a normal weight for a house cat? 150lbs <expand> "Is it normal for my house cat to weigh 150lbs? No, says every vet ever." I've found that on more than one occasion so I just started ignoring it. I really need to switch the default search engine on the rest of my devices to DDG. Google is not very useful anymore.
    - SllX 5y ago
      I think it’s a fair bet. Cards on the table, I’ve had shingles twice. If you want to get technical about it, I will always have the virus that causes it, but it will not always be able to break through. First outbreak, didn’t know what it was, it was in a part of my neck and shoulder I couldn’t see and based off feel and texture, I figured “eh, Hives”, and treated it as such. So the shingles progressed, and you definitely don’t want that, until I felt physically compelled to go see a doctor ASAP. One look, with no reference material, no image searches, no charts, the Doctor instantly knew what it was and didn’t bullshit me about my age. Wrote me an antiviral prescription and I was out the door. Second time, shingles being one of the circles of hell, I figure it out before it progresses, and this time I go to a an urgent care clinic because I don’t need a diagnoses, I need a prescription vending machine. Young guy walks in, quite a bit less experienced, I all but tell him exactly what I’m there for, and he’s a bit unsure because of my age, but he walks into another room, looks at a chart, and vends me my prescription. If not for a chart on the wall and my prior and convincing experience, he would have wanted a blood test. Now I’m sure the latter is a fine doctor with a few more years under his belt now, and can reference this event in his own mind the next time he’s feeling skeptical, but sometimes being a doctor is just having the experience to know what’s up, and knowing that maybe it’s been too long since med school and maybe you should cross reference it from somewhere, or ask a colleague. And some doctors don’t need to look at anything at all, and can pronounce a diagnoses on the spot. I looked at the chart, it just showed the different patterns of different skin conditions, and these weren’t photos but illustrations. Couldn’t tell you if that’s better or worse than Google Images, but I wished I didn’t have to go to a Doctor in the first place to ask permission to buy the same antivirals I used before.
- lostdog 5y ago
  I'm more worried when the doctor is too lazy to even do a Google search. Having an expert do a web search is a decent way to filter out bad results and find a reasonable answer quickly.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  Imagine if someone said I pay that guy 100k a year and I peeked at his computer and all he was doing was looking up the problem on Google and typing in a text editor! It's not the typing or the Google search anyone is paying for they are paying for the usage of the highly trained brain that can evaluate what they are reading in the context of the hard earned skills and information possesses by the reader. On the topic of the doctors I wonder how it would work out if we combined anonymous analysis of doctors work by other doctors with patients.
kube-system 5y ago
The same reason that people pay me $200 to parrot some javascript that google could have told them. The availability of reference material doesn't give you expertise, context, trained judgement, etc. The value that an expert provides is not in their ability to memorize facts and regurgitate them.
- BeetleB 5y ago
  I'm not anti-doctor or anything, and see one as often as I can. However, I do sympathize with his point - especially when it comes to pain. Having had lots of pain problems at different points in my life, the response has always been "more painkillers". Only a few doctors, with some push back, recommended physical therapy (which didn't always work, but was more effective than painkillers).
  - kube-system 5y ago
    I think that's just a result of most people having the tendency to approach problems the way that most customers want or expect them to. The same stuff happens in software development and plenty of other jobs too.
    - BeetleB 5y ago
      > I think that's just a result of most people having the tendency to approach problems the way that most customers want or expect them to. This is definitely not: > expertise, context, trained judgement,
      - kube-system 5y ago
        There’s a spectrum. Experts are human and some get burned out and/or apathetic with bad customers like anyone else. There are proactive idealistic experts and burnt out pragmatic experts, and everything in between. There are a lot of smart people who just want to make their salary and go home with minimal fuss. They have wisdom if you’re willing to listen but they’re not about to argue with anyone. Someone being an expert is not necessarily the same as being good at their job.
michaelmrose 5y ago
Regular checkups can catch developing problems while its still possible to do something constructive about them. If you aren't receiving an annual check up AND don't have a problem more complicated than you can google indeed you shouldn't waste your money and both of your time. What is within the individuals ability to understand is going to vary widely. Your health insurance wont pay for expensive tests or treatments based on your say so because if they did people less intelligent and more paranoid than yourselves would order the moon based on what they found on webmd.

deckard1 5y ago

> they parrot something google could have told me anecdote time... went to the doctor once about an issue. She started typing into the computer. I caught a glimpse and she was literally scrolling through a Google image search, looking for a match. That's the catch-22 with professional help. You need to hire a lawyer to help keep you out of trouble or solve your business problems. But since you're not a lawyer yourself, you can't judge the quality of the work. You're at the mercy of Yelp-like reputation systems or, possibly worse, recommendations from friends and people you know.

SllX 5y ago
Heh. That Google Image search was probably a substitute for some chart already in the office, possibly gathering dust.
- deckard1 5y ago
  hopefully that. Because I shudder to think that some doctor is going to take Google's results at face value. It's the Gell-Mann Amnesia. Every once in awhile I see one of those Google instant answer boxes on a search that I know is total BS. But then I go and pretend like the next dozen searches I do are perfectly reasonable results.
  - Jtsummers 5y ago
    I always enjoy the ones that read something like: What is a normal weight for a house cat? 150lbs <expand> "Is it normal for my house cat to weigh 150lbs? No, says every vet ever." I've found that on more than one occasion so I just started ignoring it. I really need to switch the default search engine on the rest of my devices to DDG. Google is not very useful anymore.
  - SllX 5y ago
    I think it’s a fair bet. Cards on the table, I’ve had shingles twice. If you want to get technical about it, I will always have the virus that causes it, but it will not always be able to break through. First outbreak, didn’t know what it was, it was in a part of my neck and shoulder I couldn’t see and based off feel and texture, I figured “eh, Hives”, and treated it as such. So the shingles progressed, and you definitely don’t want that, until I felt physically compelled to go see a doctor ASAP. One look, with no reference material, no image searches, no charts, the Doctor instantly knew what it was and didn’t bullshit me about my age. Wrote me an antiviral prescription and I was out the door. Second time, shingles being one of the circles of hell, I figure it out before it progresses, and this time I go to a an urgent care clinic because I don’t need a diagnoses, I need a prescription vending machine. Young guy walks in, quite a bit less experienced, I all but tell him exactly what I’m there for, and he’s a bit unsure because of my age, but he walks into another room, looks at a chart, and vends me my prescription. If not for a chart on the wall and my prior and convincing experience, he would have wanted a blood test. Now I’m sure the latter is a fine doctor with a few more years under his belt now, and can reference this event in his own mind the next time he’s feeling skeptical, but sometimes being a doctor is just having the experience to know what’s up, and knowing that maybe it’s been too long since med school and maybe you should cross reference it from somewhere, or ask a colleague. And some doctors don’t need to look at anything at all, and can pronounce a diagnoses on the spot. I looked at the chart, it just showed the different patterns of different skin conditions, and these weren’t photos but illustrations. Couldn’t tell you if that’s better or worse than Google Images, but I wished I didn’t have to go to a Doctor in the first place to ask permission to buy the same antivirals I used before.
lostdog 5y ago
I'm more worried when the doctor is too lazy to even do a Google search. Having an expert do a web search is a decent way to filter out bad results and find a reasonable answer quickly.
michaelmrose 5y ago
Imagine if someone said I pay that guy 100k a year and I peeked at his computer and all he was doing was looking up the problem on Google and typing in a text editor! It's not the typing or the Google search anyone is paying for they are paying for the usage of the highly trained brain that can evaluate what they are reading in the context of the hard earned skills and information possesses by the reader. On the topic of the doctors I wonder how it would work out if we combined anonymous analysis of doctors work by other doctors with patients.

kube-system 5y ago

The same reason that people pay me $200 to parrot some javascript that google could have told them. The availability of reference material doesn't give you expertise, context, trained judgement, etc. The value that an expert provides is not in their ability to memorize facts and regurgitate them.

BeetleB 5y ago
I'm not anti-doctor or anything, and see one as often as I can. However, I do sympathize with his point - especially when it comes to pain. Having had lots of pain problems at different points in my life, the response has always been "more painkillers". Only a few doctors, with some push back, recommended physical therapy (which didn't always work, but was more effective than painkillers).
- kube-system 5y ago
  I think that's just a result of most people having the tendency to approach problems the way that most customers want or expect them to. The same stuff happens in software development and plenty of other jobs too.
  - BeetleB 5y ago
    > I think that's just a result of most people having the tendency to approach problems the way that most customers want or expect them to. This is definitely not: > expertise, context, trained judgement,
    - kube-system 5y ago
      There’s a spectrum. Experts are human and some get burned out and/or apathetic with bad customers like anyone else. There are proactive idealistic experts and burnt out pragmatic experts, and everything in between. There are a lot of smart people who just want to make their salary and go home with minimal fuss. They have wisdom if you’re willing to listen but they’re not about to argue with anyone. Someone being an expert is not necessarily the same as being good at their job.

michaelmrose 5y ago

Regular checkups can catch developing problems while its still possible to do something constructive about them. If you aren't receiving an annual check up AND don't have a problem more complicated than you can google indeed you shouldn't waste your money and both of your time. What is within the individuals ability to understand is going to vary widely. Your health insurance wont pay for expensive tests or treatments based on your say so because if they did people less intelligent and more paranoid than yourselves would order the moon based on what they found on webmd.