6 ms·

Most of us work in a profession where we hire teams of people to maintain systems with a fraction of the complexity of the human body (not to mention our unders

Most of us work in a profession where we hire teams of people to maintain systems with a fraction of the complexity of the human body (not to mention our understanding of how computers work is orders of magnitude higher than our understanding of the body). Contrast that with a doctor seeing a patient for the first time.

deregulateMed 5y ago
Ahhh the good ol "Medicine is Art and Science". How many people have died because we keep letting physicians tell us this? I'm pro Evidence Based Medicine, but physicians can't buy mansions if the medicine can be discussed by scientists.
- potatoman22 5y ago
  What are we letting physicians tell us? That the body is complex? GP didn't mention anything about it being an art
- throwaway4220 5y ago
  - Evidence based medicine is in all medical guidelines across specialties. It may even lead to defensive medicine. The "art" part of medicine is when you choose to skirt around the guidelines ie you need a noninvasive scan to diagnose your cancer, but you can't afford a PET scan or anesthesia so we will do the biopsy first because it's cheaper. This will open you up to lawsuits, but you do what you think is best. - Journal clubs are in all fields of medicine. Yes the scientific rigor is definitely lacking, but it's more from poor understanding of statistics and the sci method than maliciousness - if you want to deregulate the medical industry, many more people will die. For instance, the easiest way to make money in the ER is to refuse the uninsured dying patient without due course
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
Alright, now explain why I should pay them $200 (or more) for a half-hour consultation where they parrot something google could have told me and fill out a form in Epic? I'm with parent, unless you have a lot of time and money to spend, or an obvious problem like a broken leg, doctors aren't worth very much.
- deckard1 5y ago
  > they parrot something google could have told me anecdote time... went to the doctor once about an issue. She started typing into the computer. I caught a glimpse and she was literally scrolling through a Google image search, looking for a match. That's the catch-22 with professional help. You need to hire a lawyer to help keep you out of trouble or solve your business problems. But since you're not a lawyer yourself, you can't judge the quality of the work. You're at the mercy of Yelp-like reputation systems or, possibly worse, recommendations from friends and people you know.
  - SllX 5y ago
    Heh. That Google Image search was probably a substitute for some chart already in the office, possibly gathering dust.
    - deckard1 5y ago
      hopefully that. Because I shudder to think that some doctor is going to take Google's results at face value. It's the Gell-Mann Amnesia. Every once in awhile I see one of those Google instant answer boxes on a search that I know is total BS. But then I go and pretend like the next dozen searches I do are perfectly reasonable results.
      - Jtsummers 5y ago
        I always enjoy the ones that read something like: What is a normal weight for a house cat? 150lbs <expand> "Is it normal for my house cat to weigh 150lbs? No, says every vet ever." I've found that on more than one occasion so I just started ignoring it. I really need to switch the default search engine on the rest of my devices to DDG. Google is not very useful anymore.
      - SllX 5y ago
        I think it’s a fair bet. Cards on the table, I’ve had shingles twice. If you want to get technical about it, I will always have the virus that causes it, but it will not always be able to break through. First outbreak, didn’t know what it was, it was in a part of my neck and shoulder I couldn’t see and based off feel and texture, I figured “eh, Hives”, and treated it as such. So the shingles progressed, and you definitely don’t want that, until I felt physically compelled to go see a doctor ASAP. One look, with no reference material, no image searches, no charts, the Doctor instantly knew what it was and didn’t bullshit me about my age. Wrote me an antiviral prescription and I was out the door. Second time, shingles being one of the circles of hell, I figure it out before it progresses, and this time I go to a an urgent care clinic because I don’t need a diagnoses, I need a prescription vending machine. Young guy walks in, quite a bit less experienced, I all but tell him exactly what I’m there for, and he’s a bit unsure because of my age, but he walks into another room, looks at a chart, and vends me my prescription. If not for a chart on the wall and my prior and convincing experience, he would have wanted a blood test. Now I’m sure the latter is a fine doctor with a few more years under his belt now, and can reference this event in his own mind the next time he’s feeling skeptical, but sometimes being a doctor is just having the experience to know what’s up, and knowing that maybe it’s been too long since med school and maybe you should cross reference it from somewhere, or ask a colleague. And some doctors don’t need to look at anything at all, and can pronounce a diagnoses on the spot. I looked at the chart, it just showed the different patterns of different skin conditions, and these weren’t photos but illustrations. Couldn’t tell you if that’s better or worse than Google Images, but I wished I didn’t have to go to a Doctor in the first place to ask permission to buy the same antivirals I used before.

deregulateMed 5y ago

Ahhh the good ol "Medicine is Art and Science". How many people have died because we keep letting physicians tell us this? I'm pro Evidence Based Medicine, but physicians can't buy mansions if the medicine can be discussed by scientists.

potatoman22 5y ago
What are we letting physicians tell us? That the body is complex? GP didn't mention anything about it being an art
throwaway4220 5y ago
- Evidence based medicine is in all medical guidelines across specialties. It may even lead to defensive medicine. The "art" part of medicine is when you choose to skirt around the guidelines ie you need a noninvasive scan to diagnose your cancer, but you can't afford a PET scan or anesthesia so we will do the biopsy first because it's cheaper. This will open you up to lawsuits, but you do what you think is best. - Journal clubs are in all fields of medicine. Yes the scientific rigor is definitely lacking, but it's more from poor understanding of statistics and the sci method than maliciousness - if you want to deregulate the medical industry, many more people will die. For instance, the easiest way to make money in the ER is to refuse the uninsured dying patient without due course

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

Alright, now explain why I should pay them $200 (or more) for a half-hour consultation where they parrot something google could have told me and fill out a form in Epic? I'm with parent, unless you have a lot of time and money to spend, or an obvious problem like a broken leg, doctors aren't worth very much.

deckard1 5y ago
> they parrot something google could have told me anecdote time... went to the doctor once about an issue. She started typing into the computer. I caught a glimpse and she was literally scrolling through a Google image search, looking for a match. That's the catch-22 with professional help. You need to hire a lawyer to help keep you out of trouble or solve your business problems. But since you're not a lawyer yourself, you can't judge the quality of the work. You're at the mercy of Yelp-like reputation systems or, possibly worse, recommendations from friends and people you know.
- SllX 5y ago
  Heh. That Google Image search was probably a substitute for some chart already in the office, possibly gathering dust.
  - deckard1 5y ago
    hopefully that. Because I shudder to think that some doctor is going to take Google's results at face value. It's the Gell-Mann Amnesia. Every once in awhile I see one of those Google instant answer boxes on a search that I know is total BS. But then I go and pretend like the next dozen searches I do are perfectly reasonable results.
    - Jtsummers 5y ago
      I always enjoy the ones that read something like: What is a normal weight for a house cat? 150lbs <expand> "Is it normal for my house cat to weigh 150lbs? No, says every vet ever." I've found that on more than one occasion so I just started ignoring it. I really need to switch the default search engine on the rest of my devices to DDG. Google is not very useful anymore.
    - SllX 5y ago
      I think it’s a fair bet. Cards on the table, I’ve had shingles twice. If you want to get technical about it, I will always have the virus that causes it, but it will not always be able to break through. First outbreak, didn’t know what it was, it was in a part of my neck and shoulder I couldn’t see and based off feel and texture, I figured “eh, Hives”, and treated it as such. So the shingles progressed, and you definitely don’t want that, until I felt physically compelled to go see a doctor ASAP. One look, with no reference material, no image searches, no charts, the Doctor instantly knew what it was and didn’t bullshit me about my age. Wrote me an antiviral prescription and I was out the door. Second time, shingles being one of the circles of hell, I figure it out before it progresses, and this time I go to a an urgent care clinic because I don’t need a diagnoses, I need a prescription vending machine. Young guy walks in, quite a bit less experienced, I all but tell him exactly what I’m there for, and he’s a bit unsure because of my age, but he walks into another room, looks at a chart, and vends me my prescription. If not for a chart on the wall and my prior and convincing experience, he would have wanted a blood test. Now I’m sure the latter is a fine doctor with a few more years under his belt now, and can reference this event in his own mind the next time he’s feeling skeptical, but sometimes being a doctor is just having the experience to know what’s up, and knowing that maybe it’s been too long since med school and maybe you should cross reference it from somewhere, or ask a colleague. And some doctors don’t need to look at anything at all, and can pronounce a diagnoses on the spot. I looked at the chart, it just showed the different patterns of different skin conditions, and these weren’t photos but illustrations. Couldn’t tell you if that’s better or worse than Google Images, but I wished I didn’t have to go to a Doctor in the first place to ask permission to buy the same antivirals I used before.