5 ms·

> It seems our completely untethered tumble into the world of 1984 led by Big Brother and every all-seeing eye on the planet, with Microsoft pushing us through

> It seems our completely untethered tumble into the world of 1984 led by Big Brother and every all-seeing eye on the planet, with Microsoft pushing us through a new window and into a new era with Windows 11. Ah yes, that's absolutely what it is, not an attempt to match what is already standard on every Apple laptop.

cma 5y ago
Same end result.
MikeUt 5y ago
But better not let consumers decide whether they want to "match Apple" and still access the Windows ecosystem, just in case.
- nucleardog 5y ago
  Most of the consumers are not making informed purchasing decisions. In the face of that, setting some minimal standards for OEMs is a reasonable step for Microsoft to protect and improve their brand. Average people don't generally attribute the quality of the products to Dell, Acer, Lenovo, etc, they generally just lump it all together as "Windows" or "PCs". When they go out shopping purely on price and buy a $400 laptop only to get it home and find out a few months later they can't video call with their kids with their "new" laptop, they don't think "Wow, that's on me for buying such a cheap laptop!" or "I can't believe Dell sold me something that doesn't even have a webcam!". They think "Wow PCs suck maybe my friend was right and I should just buy an Apple." People consistently compare a $400 Windows laptop to a $2500 MBP to say "PCs suck!" or a $300 Android to a $1400 iPhone to say "Androids suck!". Ensuring some minimum baseline of quality there is generally going to help Microsoft's brand and, frankly, the average uninformed consumer. There's nothing stopping OEMs still shipping absolute garbage hardware and just putting Ubuntu on it so everyone can complain that Linux sucks instead. There's nothing stopping you from taking that and putting Windows on it yourself. There's nothing stopping you just putting a piece of tape over the webcam.
  - MikeUt 5y ago
    > a reasonable step for Microsoft to protect and improve their brand. That MS chose to mandate cameras instead of hardware off-switches or disabled Management Engine backdoors to "protect their brand" should tell you everything.
    - nucleardog 5y ago
      That the vast majority of consumers care whether they can video chat with their family, and not whether there's some non-free microcode running in their computer? I would assume that is self-evident.
rvz 5y ago
Well this is the Windows Laptop OEM’s chance to do it better than Apple and finally put a hardware switch for the camera and microphone . A green dot next to the camera is not good enough.
- vel0city 5y ago
  Several models have shutters for the camera. There have been a few generations of Thinkpads where the entire camera slides inside the bezel. No physical microphone switch but there is a firmware level mic mute keyboard combination and associated LED.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    > firmware level is not secure. Must have physical switch, not software.
- ianhawes 5y ago
  Ask anyone in the intelligence community. Web cams are great for blackmail, microphones are great for actionable intelligence.
- jagger27 5y ago
  If that green LED is physically connected with the power to the camera then that's plenty good enough for me. How could it possibly be bypassed with software? Even if a physical switch was added I'd still want them to keep the LED for the convenience of it. I do agree though that a physical hardware switch is better, especially for the microphone. I see no real reason why Apple couldn't put a parts bin iPhone mute toggle switch on the side of a MacBook. I don't think it would look out of place.
  - pmontra 5y ago
    To really trust the LED we should open the screen and check if the LED is actually connected to the power line of the camera. Of course we should check the hardware switch too.
- 5y ago

cma 5y ago

Same end result.

MikeUt 5y ago

But better not let consumers decide whether they want to "match Apple" and still access the Windows ecosystem, just in case.

nucleardog 5y ago
Most of the consumers are not making informed purchasing decisions. In the face of that, setting some minimal standards for OEMs is a reasonable step for Microsoft to protect and improve their brand. Average people don't generally attribute the quality of the products to Dell, Acer, Lenovo, etc, they generally just lump it all together as "Windows" or "PCs". When they go out shopping purely on price and buy a $400 laptop only to get it home and find out a few months later they can't video call with their kids with their "new" laptop, they don't think "Wow, that's on me for buying such a cheap laptop!" or "I can't believe Dell sold me something that doesn't even have a webcam!". They think "Wow PCs suck maybe my friend was right and I should just buy an Apple." People consistently compare a $400 Windows laptop to a $2500 MBP to say "PCs suck!" or a $300 Android to a $1400 iPhone to say "Androids suck!". Ensuring some minimum baseline of quality there is generally going to help Microsoft's brand and, frankly, the average uninformed consumer. There's nothing stopping OEMs still shipping absolute garbage hardware and just putting Ubuntu on it so everyone can complain that Linux sucks instead. There's nothing stopping you from taking that and putting Windows on it yourself. There's nothing stopping you just putting a piece of tape over the webcam.
- MikeUt 5y ago
  > a reasonable step for Microsoft to protect and improve their brand. That MS chose to mandate cameras instead of hardware off-switches or disabled Management Engine backdoors to "protect their brand" should tell you everything.
  - nucleardog 5y ago
    That the vast majority of consumers care whether they can video chat with their family, and not whether there's some non-free microcode running in their computer? I would assume that is self-evident.

rvz 5y ago

Well this is the Windows Laptop OEM’s chance to do it better than Apple and finally put a hardware switch for the camera and microphone . A green dot next to the camera is not good enough.

vel0city 5y ago
Several models have shutters for the camera. There have been a few generations of Thinkpads where the entire camera slides inside the bezel. No physical microphone switch but there is a firmware level mic mute keyboard combination and associated LED.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  > firmware level is not secure. Must have physical switch, not software.
ianhawes 5y ago
Ask anyone in the intelligence community. Web cams are great for blackmail, microphones are great for actionable intelligence.
jagger27 5y ago
If that green LED is physically connected with the power to the camera then that's plenty good enough for me. How could it possibly be bypassed with software? Even if a physical switch was added I'd still want them to keep the LED for the convenience of it. I do agree though that a physical hardware switch is better, especially for the microphone. I see no real reason why Apple couldn't put a parts bin iPhone mute toggle switch on the side of a MacBook. I don't think it would look out of place.
- pmontra 5y ago
  To really trust the LED we should open the screen and check if the LED is actually connected to the power line of the camera. Of course we should check the hardware switch too.
5y ago