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The biggest thing that made the pandemic so bad outside of china was large fractions of the population not taking it seriously. That said this pandemic was obje

The biggest thing that made the pandemic so bad outside of china was large fractions of the population not taking it seriously. That said this pandemic was objectively not that bad by historical standards.

accurrent 5y ago
Actually, I would see this as a shifting of blame from the government's perspective. Anyone who runs a government should know that legislation will be broken. People will not comply with orders. Thus the government should implement extremely simple and transparent legislation - something that most governments tend not to do. This legislation should be possible to enforce. One of the best ways to gain empathy is to involve citizens in the process. Rather than blame the citizens, start by thanking those who do follow orders. Involve citizens in the process. I'm sure we could have used a lot more contact tracers and swabbers during the pandemic, how about training unemployed citizens and using them for this task? I live in Singapore where due to our size and wealth we have been able to manage the pandemic, arguably better than most countries. Its not only the fact that Singapore enforces legislation that helped us. There are many instances where legislation has been broken, and not all cases will be prosecuted. But one thing that worked well is the government treated us well. The moment they announced a "circuit breaker" (not lockdown cause that sounds scary) the government accompanied that with multiple payouts through the year to ensure people have basic sustenance. Further, the prime minister thanked us for complying with orders rather than picking on the few that did not comply with orders. Also we lived though SARS, and every now and then get scares from the Avian Flu so pandemic response is something we have lready been conditioned bu.
- morpheos137 5y ago
  My point was not to assign blame but rather observe that the difference in the way the popuations reacted. Western populations likely did not take the pandemic as seriously as say China or Japan because of mixed messages from government, conspiratorial thinking, and exceptionalism. For conspiratorial thinking have a look at godlikeproductions.com countless threads about virus fake, virus harmless, masks don't work, vaccines kill. I am confident that godlikeproductions.com has killed far more people via covid than gab or parler did through "insurrection" or racism. And yet cloudflare continues to provide services to godlikeproductions.com It is almost as if they don't care as long as those dying are not san francisco elites.
  - accurrent 5y ago
    True. But I don't think its only the populations. We have had a few clowns in Singapore who have expressed similar opinions. Yes, many of them have been prosecuted and charged for not complying, but I'm sure there are some who still have weird ideas about covid being a hoax or the vaccines being untrustworthy. (In fact we have had a lot of trouble convincing the older population to vaccinate some of them think the government approved American vaccines are too experimental) Japan honestly has done a terrible job managing the epidemic if compared with the rest of East Asia. It cannot be clubbed with China. In China we do not actually know the amount of compliance as that data is not available to us. I know of at least one protest held in Wuhan during the lockdown. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-10/wuhan-rent-protest-shows-unrest-brewing-in-china-after-lockdown https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-10/wuhan-ren...
taeric 5y ago
I want to believe this. With how varied the level of reaction was in the states, coupled with how spread the impact was, I'm not sure we can say just yet. Even the places that were heralded as amazing are starting to fall. I see Vietnam is on a rise now. Thailand? Who is left?
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
The US was a major source of anti vaccination FUD. And while in the US vaccination is stalling because of "muh freedom" EU governments developed an app that stops unvaccinated people from entering restaurants and airplanes. The latest 3D chess move was letting children get the jab without their parents permission. I was seriously worried about our civilization for a moment but sanity prevailed. We will be at 90% soon.
- forcry 5y ago
  > "muh freedom" Freedom is costly. A lot of people died, and I mean, really, "A LOT", and I am talking people at the prime of their lives, for freedoms that we enjoy all over the world. "muh freedom" indeed.
- Dma54rhs 5y ago
  What is this app you're talking about that won't let me visit restaurants or fly in EU? Either you're on purpose spreading misinformation or think whatever happens in your geographic location x is what is happening everywhere aka you're narrow minded. Edit: ok, you're an arrogant yank, which explains it. Whatever you read about the mystical EU on reddit is 9 times out of 10 total bs.
jpeloquin 5y ago
As a blame-free explanation of why SARS-CoV-2 become so widespread, I think the parent comment is basically correct. From [0], "SARS, caused by a respiratory-tract virus, also failed [to become a pandemic], although it came close to causing a pandemic after its emergence in late 2002. It killed almost 800 people worldwide, but was rapidly stopped mainly because infected people developed symptoms quickly." In contrast, Covid-19 spreads pre-symptomatically, and infections are frequently mild or asymptomatic. The test-trace-isolate containment strategy, such that it was, relied on people acting in response to symptoms. People without symptoms can't do that, and if someone has what feels like a normal cold they're just not very likely to take special precautions, at least early on when the disease is rare and there's still a chance of containment. The pandemic response we prepare for next time needs to compensate for this, such as by adopting proactive disease surveillance or increasing efforts in other areas. As for the pandemic not being that bad, we did get lucky in a couple ways: it was possible to rapidly develop many vaccines, and the mortality rate was relatively low. Covid, disturbingly, was sort of the least bad version of a global pandemic, at least compared to the alternative scenarios outlined in warnings (e.g., [0]) over the past several decades. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2002527/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2002527/

accurrent 5y ago

Actually, I would see this as a shifting of blame from the government's perspective. Anyone who runs a government should know that legislation will be broken. People will not comply with orders. Thus the government should implement extremely simple and transparent legislation - something that most governments tend not to do. This legislation should be possible to enforce. One of the best ways to gain empathy is to involve citizens in the process. Rather than blame the citizens, start by thanking those who do follow orders. Involve citizens in the process. I'm sure we could have used a lot more contact tracers and swabbers during the pandemic, how about training unemployed citizens and using them for this task? I live in Singapore where due to our size and wealth we have been able to manage the pandemic, arguably better than most countries. Its not only the fact that Singapore enforces legislation that helped us. There are many instances where legislation has been broken, and not all cases will be prosecuted. But one thing that worked well is the government treated us well. The moment they announced a "circuit breaker" (not lockdown cause that sounds scary) the government accompanied that with multiple payouts through the year to ensure people have basic sustenance. Further, the prime minister thanked us for complying with orders rather than picking on the few that did not comply with orders. Also we lived though SARS, and every now and then get scares from the Avian Flu so pandemic response is something we have lready been conditioned bu.

morpheos137 5y ago
My point was not to assign blame but rather observe that the difference in the way the popuations reacted. Western populations likely did not take the pandemic as seriously as say China or Japan because of mixed messages from government, conspiratorial thinking, and exceptionalism. For conspiratorial thinking have a look at godlikeproductions.com countless threads about virus fake, virus harmless, masks don't work, vaccines kill. I am confident that godlikeproductions.com has killed far more people via covid than gab or parler did through "insurrection" or racism. And yet cloudflare continues to provide services to godlikeproductions.com It is almost as if they don't care as long as those dying are not san francisco elites.
- accurrent 5y ago
  True. But I don't think its only the populations. We have had a few clowns in Singapore who have expressed similar opinions. Yes, many of them have been prosecuted and charged for not complying, but I'm sure there are some who still have weird ideas about covid being a hoax or the vaccines being untrustworthy. (In fact we have had a lot of trouble convincing the older population to vaccinate some of them think the government approved American vaccines are too experimental) Japan honestly has done a terrible job managing the epidemic if compared with the rest of East Asia. It cannot be clubbed with China. In China we do not actually know the amount of compliance as that data is not available to us. I know of at least one protest held in Wuhan during the lockdown. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-10/wuhan-rent-protest-shows-unrest-brewing-in-china-after-lockdown https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-10/wuhan-ren...

taeric 5y ago

I want to believe this. With how varied the level of reaction was in the states, coupled with how spread the impact was, I'm not sure we can say just yet. Even the places that were heralded as amazing are starting to fall. I see Vietnam is on a rise now. Thailand? Who is left?

MomoXenosaga 5y ago

The US was a major source of anti vaccination FUD. And while in the US vaccination is stalling because of "muh freedom" EU governments developed an app that stops unvaccinated people from entering restaurants and airplanes. The latest 3D chess move was letting children get the jab without their parents permission. I was seriously worried about our civilization for a moment but sanity prevailed. We will be at 90% soon.

forcry 5y ago
> "muh freedom" Freedom is costly. A lot of people died, and I mean, really, "A LOT", and I am talking people at the prime of their lives, for freedoms that we enjoy all over the world. "muh freedom" indeed.
Dma54rhs 5y ago
What is this app you're talking about that won't let me visit restaurants or fly in EU? Either you're on purpose spreading misinformation or think whatever happens in your geographic location x is what is happening everywhere aka you're narrow minded. Edit: ok, you're an arrogant yank, which explains it. Whatever you read about the mystical EU on reddit is 9 times out of 10 total bs.

jpeloquin 5y ago

As a blame-free explanation of why SARS-CoV-2 become so widespread, I think the parent comment is basically correct. From [0], "SARS, caused by a respiratory-tract virus, also failed [to become a pandemic], although it came close to causing a pandemic after its emergence in late 2002. It killed almost 800 people worldwide, but was rapidly stopped mainly because infected people developed symptoms quickly." In contrast, Covid-19 spreads pre-symptomatically, and infections are frequently mild or asymptomatic. The test-trace-isolate containment strategy, such that it was, relied on people acting in response to symptoms. People without symptoms can't do that, and if someone has what feels like a normal cold they're just not very likely to take special precautions, at least early on when the disease is rare and there's still a chance of containment. The pandemic response we prepare for next time needs to compensate for this, such as by adopting proactive disease surveillance or increasing efforts in other areas. As for the pandemic not being that bad, we did get lucky in a couple ways: it was possible to rapidly develop many vaccines, and the mortality rate was relatively low. Covid, disturbingly, was sort of the least bad version of a global pandemic, at least compared to the alternative scenarios outlined in warnings (e.g., [0]) over the past several decades. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2002527/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2002527/