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Are you talking about AAVE or the standard English African American accent? These are not the same thing and you seem to be deliberately misleading about it.

Are you talking about AAVE or the standard English African American accent? These are not the same thing and you seem to be deliberately misleading about it. Whatever you’re trying to argue for, state it clearly.

bedobi 5y ago
Both. The argument is AAVE is incorrect, or at least different from, Standard American English, that's why it stigmatized. That doesn't explain why Australian English, which is also different, is not stigmatized in the US. In fact, there's an expectation that even in the US, people make an effort to understand Australian English. It also doesn't explain why even Standard American English, just spoken with an African American accent, is also stigmatized. It's literally just Standard American English with different pronunciation! Australian English is far more different to Standard American English than Standard American English is to itself just spoken with an African American Accent. Anyone who thinks about this with a shred of honesty will see that there's something very revealing about that.
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  No, I don’t think so, and I also don’t think that everyone who disagrees with you is being dishonest. That’s why ideological viewpoints like yours are so misleading. 1. Australians are a tiny minority in America. Most people have never met someone from Australia. Whether they are stigmatized or not is frankly irrelevant. They play almost zero cultural role in American English. 2. Having different pronunciations by default makes it not standard American English. Not sure why this is controversial. If 90% of the country uses a certain pronunciation, why is the 10% one just as valid? Is the avoidance of it discrimination? I don’t think so. More like basic practicality. 3. Again, you seem lost in a loop here. Either AAVE is a separate dialect with its own internal grammar, or it’s an extension of Standard English that uses incorrect grammar. Which is it? 4. Considering that pretty much every other dialect is treated exactly the same way (Appalachian, etc.) it’s pretty clear this has little to do with race, as you are ideologically trying to shoehorn into your argument. You see some grand conspiracy when the reality is that standard American English has a longer history, more cultural works, and is agreed upon by the majority of the population. It’s really that simple.
  - bedobi 5y ago
    > Australians are a tiny minority in America. Most people have never met someone from Australia. Whether they are stigmatized or not is frankly irrelevant. They play almost zero cultural role in American English. This is an odd counter argument. If there's so few Australians in the US, and they're so insignificant, you'd expect them to be more pressured into not speaking Australian English. But again, they're not being pressured into not speaking Australian English, if anything, Americans are expected to accommodate and make an effort to understand them. Why is this not the case for AAVE, which is very commonly spoken by far more people and a far more important variety of English in the US? > Either AAVE is a separate dialect with its own internal grammar, or it’s an extension of Standard English that uses incorrect grammar. Which is it? AAVE is a variety of English. Some of its grammar is different to Standard English. Standard American English spoken with an African American accent is not AAVE, it's just Standard American English spoken with a different pronunciation. Both are curiously stigmatized in ways Australian English is not.
    - ceilingcorner 5y ago
      Where are you getting this information? Where are Australians not pressured into speaking Standard American English? On the street? Well, I don’t think anyone pressures people to not speak AAVE on the street either. In schools? Certainly an Australian kid going through American schools will be taught to lose his Australian spellings, pronunciations, irregular vocabulary. Unclear to me how this is any different. In the media? Well, if an Australian newscaster working in the US starting saying cunt, I assure you, he’d be forced to adopt Standard American English. As I said, you have a highly ideological view and seem to be looking for anything to justify your conclusion.

bedobi 5y ago

Both. The argument is AAVE is incorrect, or at least different from, Standard American English, that's why it stigmatized. That doesn't explain why Australian English, which is also different, is not stigmatized in the US. In fact, there's an expectation that even in the US, people make an effort to understand Australian English. It also doesn't explain why even Standard American English, just spoken with an African American accent, is also stigmatized. It's literally just Standard American English with different pronunciation! Australian English is far more different to Standard American English than Standard American English is to itself just spoken with an African American Accent. Anyone who thinks about this with a shred of honesty will see that there's something very revealing about that.

ceilingcorner 5y ago
No, I don’t think so, and I also don’t think that everyone who disagrees with you is being dishonest. That’s why ideological viewpoints like yours are so misleading. 1. Australians are a tiny minority in America. Most people have never met someone from Australia. Whether they are stigmatized or not is frankly irrelevant. They play almost zero cultural role in American English. 2. Having different pronunciations by default makes it not standard American English. Not sure why this is controversial. If 90% of the country uses a certain pronunciation, why is the 10% one just as valid? Is the avoidance of it discrimination? I don’t think so. More like basic practicality. 3. Again, you seem lost in a loop here. Either AAVE is a separate dialect with its own internal grammar, or it’s an extension of Standard English that uses incorrect grammar. Which is it? 4. Considering that pretty much every other dialect is treated exactly the same way (Appalachian, etc.) it’s pretty clear this has little to do with race, as you are ideologically trying to shoehorn into your argument. You see some grand conspiracy when the reality is that standard American English has a longer history, more cultural works, and is agreed upon by the majority of the population. It’s really that simple.
- bedobi 5y ago
  > Australians are a tiny minority in America. Most people have never met someone from Australia. Whether they are stigmatized or not is frankly irrelevant. They play almost zero cultural role in American English. This is an odd counter argument. If there's so few Australians in the US, and they're so insignificant, you'd expect them to be more pressured into not speaking Australian English. But again, they're not being pressured into not speaking Australian English, if anything, Americans are expected to accommodate and make an effort to understand them. Why is this not the case for AAVE, which is very commonly spoken by far more people and a far more important variety of English in the US? > Either AAVE is a separate dialect with its own internal grammar, or it’s an extension of Standard English that uses incorrect grammar. Which is it? AAVE is a variety of English. Some of its grammar is different to Standard English. Standard American English spoken with an African American accent is not AAVE, it's just Standard American English spoken with a different pronunciation. Both are curiously stigmatized in ways Australian English is not.
  - ceilingcorner 5y ago
    Where are you getting this information? Where are Australians not pressured into speaking Standard American English? On the street? Well, I don’t think anyone pressures people to not speak AAVE on the street either. In schools? Certainly an Australian kid going through American schools will be taught to lose his Australian spellings, pronunciations, irregular vocabulary. Unclear to me how this is any different. In the media? Well, if an Australian newscaster working in the US starting saying cunt, I assure you, he’d be forced to adopt Standard American English. As I said, you have a highly ideological view and seem to be looking for anything to justify your conclusion.