4 ms·

If you can't see the difference between good design and bad, it's totally understandable to think of all design as equivalently good. I would say that there is

If you can't see the difference between good design and bad, it's totally understandable to think of all design as equivalently good. I would say that there is no reason to conform a site to any sort of "cookie-cutter standard", but when you are not good at design and aren't working with a designer, it's much better to base your project on well-designed examples than to wing it with pink and purple boxes and no padding. Whether you're familiar with it or not, the trio of stock photos with marketing messages listed over top is already cliche, but more importantly is very poorly executed here. I think he should get rid of it because it's a waste of time to try to learn how to execute it well, not because it's never a good idea to have it. As I tried to explain, I'm not arguing that all sites should look a certain way, just that in my judgment this particular guy is better off making design a non-issue rather than trying to trail-blaze.

dkarl 15y ago
As I tried to explain, I'm not arguing that all sites should look a certain way ... you're just giving him advice that would make his site look like every other site following the conventional wisdom. I agree his site needs work, but it would be more constructive to identify something unique and salvageable about his site instead of saying he needs to completely remove his design skills (or lack thereof) from the equation. It feels a bit negative and mercenary for a site that he's put a lot of personal work into and doesn't seem interested in monetizing. Personally, I think the way he's done the text on the photos feels original in this context. A professional analyzing the structure of the page might find a cliche, but that doesn't mean much if the users don't see it. Otherwise everything would feel cliche all the time. The solid background behind the text isn't original (A Softer World uses it, and it might feel stale in a magazine advertisement) but it puts you off the "product page" scent.
- ForrestN 15y ago
  Obviously there's not much use in keeping this going, but I want to be even clearer: the problem isn't whether or not what he's doing is cliche, the problem is that it looks amateurish, distracting and unpleasant (sorry to be harsh, just trying to be clear). It looks wrong, not just outside of my expectations. I originally gave him a big list of concrete ideas of how to improve, it's not like I just said "boy this looks crappy" and told him to rip off existing sites. My broader point is that questions of originality and uniqueness are moot when you haven't crossed the threshold of basic quality, so it's counterproductive to worry about them. I can definitely appreciate your suggestion that I coat criticism with more than just the "constructive" preface, and I could have offered that I think it's a cool idea and that it looks like he's put in a lot of hard work. I'll do that next time.

dkarl 15y ago

As I tried to explain, I'm not arguing that all sites should look a certain way ... you're just giving him advice that would make his site look like every other site following the conventional wisdom. I agree his site needs work, but it would be more constructive to identify something unique and salvageable about his site instead of saying he needs to completely remove his design skills (or lack thereof) from the equation. It feels a bit negative and mercenary for a site that he's put a lot of personal work into and doesn't seem interested in monetizing. Personally, I think the way he's done the text on the photos feels original in this context. A professional analyzing the structure of the page might find a cliche, but that doesn't mean much if the users don't see it. Otherwise everything would feel cliche all the time. The solid background behind the text isn't original (A Softer World uses it, and it might feel stale in a magazine advertisement) but it puts you off the "product page" scent.

ForrestN 15y ago
Obviously there's not much use in keeping this going, but I want to be even clearer: the problem isn't whether or not what he's doing is cliche, the problem is that it looks amateurish, distracting and unpleasant (sorry to be harsh, just trying to be clear). It looks wrong, not just outside of my expectations. I originally gave him a big list of concrete ideas of how to improve, it's not like I just said "boy this looks crappy" and told him to rip off existing sites. My broader point is that questions of originality and uniqueness are moot when you haven't crossed the threshold of basic quality, so it's counterproductive to worry about them. I can definitely appreciate your suggestion that I coat criticism with more than just the "constructive" preface, and I could have offered that I think it's a cool idea and that it looks like he's put in a lot of hard work. I'll do that next time.