11 ms·

I left my tech job to build a meditation app

98 points by tmshu1 5y ago

brunoqc 5y ago
Any good non-subscription mediation app out there?
- jonathankoren 5y ago
  There’s several that if all you want is a breath timer. Sometimes that’s even unlocked on the subscription apps. But there’s a lot of crappy apps out there.
- option_greek 5y ago
  Traditionally, meditation is taught by various lineages of thought masters without any thought of money or profit. Here is one belonging to heartfulness practice: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hfn.unified https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hfn.unifie...
- tfehring 5y ago
  https://meditofoundation.org/ https://meditofoundation.org/
- azundo 5y ago
  If you can't afford it, you can get Waking Up for free. If you can afford it I think it's worth the price.
  - nscalf 5y ago
    Waking Up is a great non-mystical type of meditation app. I strongly recommend checking this out if you’re at all turned off by the voodoo surrounding meditation.
  - tmshu1 5y ago
    I'm personally a huge fan of Waking Up! Have been a long time user. I'm looking to bring a different experience to the table to address the underlying needs of why anyone would want to use a meditation app, or even start to do meditation without one, in the first place
- ryannevius 5y ago
  Insight Timer. But as another sibling comment mentioned, Waking Up is worth the money; and if you can't afford a subscription, they'll give you a free one.
- jstx1 5y ago
  Oak. It's only on iOS but it has no subscription and it's by far my favorite meditation app.
- j7ake 5y ago
  One can download a good youtube guided meditation video on your phone and play it over and over again while meditating.
  - BlissWaves 5y ago
    lets build an app for that
jonathankoren 5y ago
I’ve downloaded a lot of mediation apps and they all seem same. Throw rhythmic breathing (maybe make it configurable, but not too configurable), mix in some simple animations, and the same Creative Commons gongs and bells, and call it a day. Hire some people to do some voice overs for “guided meditations”, and charge a $50 monthly subscription fee. I even started to make my own until I discovered you couldn’t get haptics to work in your own app like how haptics work in Apple’s Breathe watch app. So my question is simple: in a crowded space with low barriers to entry, how do you plan differentiate your app?
- jdmg94 5y ago
  This post could’ve been about a to-do list app and it wouldn’t change the overall feeling of privilege from the author, all the best for him but you can’t pass this as some inspirational type of post
  - jonathankoren 5y ago
    It’s pretty much a content free blog post. I’m surprised it ended up on the front page.
- salt-thrower 5y ago
  It's nice to see a renewed public interest in meditation driving the trend of new meditation apps, but I feel that most of the apps miss the point. The act of meditating is marketed as an individualistic, prescriptive activity for stress and anxiety; it is absent any of the spiritual content that (for me) makes it potent. To elaborate, I personally didn't get much out of meditation until I starting using it to sit with concepts like impermanence, non-attachment, and oneness from the Zen tradition. By contrast, apps like Headspace are selling themselves like "feeling anxious? Try our app!" and getting corporate sponsorships for employers to give subscriptions to their employees, like a commodity to pacify a stressed out workforce. But who knows, maybe it's still a net good in that it might introduce more people to the practice. And maybe some of the apps get deeper into the practice than the ones I used.
  - 5y ago
fermentation 5y ago
Congrats! This is something I'd love to do one day if I find myself not tied to a location by social connections. This stuck out to me: > I decided to focus on building a meditation app as my main project. I came up with the idea because I saw others around me struggling to stick to meditation... Do you expect another meditation app to help with this? I think many folks interested in mediation quickly find a good beginner/handhold-y app like Headspace. Yet, like language learning w/ Duolingo, few people actually stick to it. I think Duolingo and Headspace are awesome and to be honest, if I can't make something stick with these two I'm not sure how an app could be "better" at making me stick to something.
- tmshu1 5y ago
  Thank you for the kind words! Headspace and other apps are great for meditation beginners. You mentioned Duolingo as an example that has made language learning more fun and thus easier to stick to. Similarly, I think there's a lot of room for improvement in how people learn meditation. I approach habit development from a different angle though: sticking to a habit comes after certain conditions are met, and it's not just about "gamifying" everything. There are ways to learn meditation that make the practice itself much more meaningful, and thus easier to stick to.
- conductr 5y ago
  I think meditation is the new diet fad. People try it but generally will not stick with it long term. Maybe they’ll try a different type of meditation (diet). A vocal minority will have success and life change that continues to inspire and fuel the trend. But as a business, high churn ahead is my guess.
completeb0ll0c 5y ago
My meditation trick is to put all gadgets away and take a nap in my hammock.
- cercatrova 5y ago
  Meditation is physiologically different from sleep and each confers benefits that the other does not.
  - errorproxy 5y ago
    He was pranking you.
    - cercatrova 5y ago
      I know but I replied just so on the off chance that a reader might've thought they're both the same, which I've thought before actually, so just wanted to clear up that misconception.
    - kjaftaedi 5y ago
      We tend to give people the benefit of the doubt because these types of comments are generally discouraged. There are a list of posting guidelines linked at the bottom that all new users are recommended to familiarize themselves with.
nobody0 5y ago
Probably the essence of meditation is not to be borrowing power from the outside. You are entering that mode by yourself.
datadawg 5y ago
Thanks for sharing Troy! I imagine it's not easy to build in public and to write in public when you don't necessarily have it all figured out. Respect your willingness to put yourself out there as you figure it out, and looking forward to learning alongside you on your journey.
- tmshu1 5y ago
  Thank you so much for your kindness! Putting myself out there definitely isn't easy. I have a ton to learn, and always will. Looking forward to continuing the adventure and sharing more!
username90 5y ago
Why would you need to quit your job to make a meditation app? Can't you make one in a few days? They don't have any social elements etc, just an app that plays music and notifications.
- froh 5y ago
  and turn off and back on notifications and calls. and dim the screen. and collect the progres. and allow for intermediate "checkpoint" dings . and are flexibly configurable. and allow for guided meditations. definitively minimize power consumption. etcetcetc ps: for a backend think about collecting meditation statistics, and pulling in meditator networking, online meditation groups, running longitudinal meditation studies "how was your sit" and other parameters... if you eont put that into the meditation app you want the meditation app to send notifications to the other apps, so add events and notifications to the no-backend list above. point being: its more than a timer and notifications.
  - BlissWaves 5y ago
    Not to mention, a double-blind questionairre following a meditation, meditator ELO score and finally match-making based on said score.
    - froh 5y ago
      how could I forget about the meditator ELO score! competitive meditation! rankings! you made my day :-)
- coldtea 5y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
  - mylons 5y ago
    this is my favorite response to something like this
carrolldunham 5y ago
It just seems like several thousand people already had this exact sequence of thoughts and did the exact same thing and so there are several hundred meditation apps that nobody really needs and that don't really benefit anybody except the indulgent scrounger who set out to monetize something that should be and already is offered free. If you're "not sticking to" meditation you don't need a different app, you need to realize that you valuing other things over it that are pulling you out.
queueworker 5y ago
For the author: if you need some inspiration from another meditation/breathing app, check https://github.com/mmazzarolo/breathly-app https://github.com/mmazzarolo/breathly-app
- tmshu1 5y ago
  Thank you for sharing your meditation/breathing app and code! I really appreciate the kind gesture. I'll definitely take a look to learn more about what kinds of things people need/want.
barrenko 5y ago
You don't need meditation apps (or to build one). You need meditation. But that hinges on realizing you're a junkie.
okokwhatever 5y ago
To enjoy a meaningful life. That's the correct path dude. Congrats
holografix 5y ago
I mean absolutely no offence but I’m afraid you’ll do a lot of meditating on why you left a secure job to build something no one needs.
_hao 5y ago
If I want to meditate I don't want to have my phone or a computer anywhere near me. Having an app "guide" you is essentially another distraction you'll have to eliminate.
- jstx1 5y ago
  The usual progression is from doing guided meditation as a beginner to eventually using the app as a simple timer with no guidance at all.
  - tmshu1 5y ago
    Exactly. And this general progression is what my app will promote and help cultivate. The goal is to help you develop such a strong meditation habit, one that you'll want to stick to and be able to without effort, that you don't need my or any other meditation app for anything at all (except maybe a timer).
  - ctvo 5y ago
    The usual progression is sitting. Just sitting. What your talking about is tech folks seeing the benefits of meditation and looking for shortcuts. If it works for you go for it.
    - canes123456 5y ago
      Tech folks didn’t invent guided meditations. There was already seminars, classes, retreat, etc where some one explained how to mediate or walked you though mediation. People just randomly start sitting.
- arthur_sav 5y ago
  I've been meditation in silence for years. Never found something more annoying than a "guiding voice".
  - criddell 5y ago
    You didn't use any kind of a guide for your first few sessions? You sat in silence on day 1?
errorproxy 5y ago
solutionism
- tmshu1 5y ago
  "the belief that every problem has a solution based in technology" I'm not very well versed in this idea, curious to learn and read more. Have any recommended books? What do you think about this one https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13587160-to-save-everything-click-here https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13587160-to-save-everyth...? I personally believe that all problems are, at their core, human problems. Hence why the focus on meditation as an Archimedes lever. Technology helps us solve problems at scale, but it has to be applied "mindfully". Technology is always a double-edged sword (see Facebook)
  - errorproxy 5y ago
    I just heard it in the T.V. show, Silicon Valley. They defined it as addressing problems that don't exist. I always think about battery powered spinning forks. I've been to a Vipassana camp and every day for 10 days we would meditate for 12 hours a day in a hall. As people have for more than 2000 years. I'm in no way a meditation guru nor a traditionalist but any app that would give you stimulus whether it be through vibrations or visual/verbal instructions would take away from the grounding and mindful experience. I am confident that most people who buy meditation apps don't actually meditate for more than a few days. We all already have a meditation app. It's a the clock app, you can set an alarm on it. Similar to those people who buy a expensive ellipticals or bikes and never use it. Peloton regret is a real thing. I think this is a first world problem regarding consumerism. Capitalist society and the higher ups convincing us to worship money. Where we put all our energy into obtaining money in order to put it back in the system. Man has successfully domesticated man. If anyone really wanted to meditate, they would just do it. Maybe look up how to do it, then do it. But we live in an app world today, it is what it is. I just realized you're the poster of the article. I don't mean to say what you're doing is pointless but it'd be cooler if you made a meditation app that locked the phone or something totally different than the other apps. What do you mean by: "I personally believe that all problems are, at their core, human problems. Hence why the focus on meditation as an Archimedes lever." Yes, tech should solve problems mindfully which is why I always see meditation apps and the like to be oxymoronic. Our brains did not evolve at the rate our technology did, it is nigh impossible to be mindful with technology. We also did not evolve to work and play on computers all day and we are now seeing the psychological and physiological epidemic of problems. That's why people in the cities go camping to "unplug". That's why there a movement of high income industrious workers like yourself quitting and picking up manual labor jobs. Making things with your hands is far more fulfilling than coding small parts in a multi billion dollar app. It's just how our brains and bodies work. I believe this is another fundamental problem with humans today, up there with consumerism. Your Memento chrome extension is pretty sick though and is pretty mindful. I just installed it. Thanks for reading this probably incoherent rant.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
gabereiser 5y ago
Ignore the naysayers in this thread. They have never experienced assisted meditation before. The biggest impact in my life (outside of having kids) was when I discovered Qi-gong and the power of assisted meditation. The thing that clicked the most for me was having calm soothing meditation music to help enter the trance state of consciousness. My mind tends to wander and focusing on the sound helped deliver clear thought.
- tmshu1 5y ago
  Thank you for your support. It's amazing how technology influences us, and how we influence technology. Meditation or any other practice is no different. I keep hearing about this kids thing, gonna have to get on that soon...
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  Meditation isn't a "trance state". There are recurring refutations of this throughout Buddhist literature over the millenia. The answer to a conditioned existence is not more conditioning. Yes, states of refined pleasure can be used as springboards for insight, so-called "jhanas" but they are by no means the dominant method of practice. Seeing through conditioned reality doesn't require any trance or altered state at all, just a lot of practice and time and patience. Qigong is its own thing and should be addressed as its own thing. It's an energy-based practice with various claims to longevity and health through proscribed movements.
  - hnzix 5y ago
    > Qigong is its own thing Qigong exercises are very much like guided meditation, almost like kata in martial arts. You can gain the benefits of Qigong as meditation without buying into the energy work as anything other than a metaphor.
    - sorokod 5y ago
      Better leave martial arts out of this. Kata is just a form, a pattern you repeat until the movments are known to the body. If you overload the kata with spiritual/psychological baggage, it isn't martial arts anymore. To quote a teacher, its "Ken before Zen" Disclosure: have been practicing for more then two decades.
cyberpunk 5y ago
I have a bit of a problem with this mindfulness craze, I’m not really precious about Buddhist practices being solely for Buddhists, but these mindfulness programmes are taking a very small aspect of something that has been practiced for millennia without really having a way to deal with the results… most people will feel something after 8 weeks or so of such a practice, however usually after this point, if they’ve not given up, a lot of stuff bubbles to the surface which really you need a proper zen teacher to work through… Someone selling you an 8 week programme to “fix your anxiety” or such, probably doesn’t have the same depth of experience as someone who has practiced Zazen for several decades, there are no shortcuts and it could be harmful. If you really want the real deal, I can recommend you read a couple of Brad Warner books before you commit.
- prox 5y ago
  As long as you don’t overdo it, a 15-30 minute meditation won’t hurt. I have taught yoga and meditation for over a decade and I have always been very mindful (pun intended) to not make the error of doing the hard stuff that was intended for monasteries. They are basically two different tracks. That said, having a pool of resources to help out would be beneficial to those who meditate and feel they need it.
markthien 5y ago
you didn't leave tech. you just left your desk in the company
throwaway4good 5y ago
I personally think that the meditation app space is under explored. Or rather the dominant players have their business model (a hefty monthly subscription) dictating their app design. So rather than a coaching model, think of a simple tool like a gong or a timer. Much like the original "Sleep Cycle" app, only for mediation (combing a timer with the feedback you can collect via the sensors of a phone).
- chewz 5y ago
  Making a good meditation timer is not an easy task. I have tried many on both iOS and Android and can recommend only one that suits me - Meditation Timer by Telesense... It is really difficult to filter out all obstructions and notifications. And it takes carefull design to make flexible timer that suits meditator needs. As for meditation coaching app I think there are so many approaches to teaching meditation that there is a space for many more apps. But I doubt that one size fits all approach will ever work... Best approach might be not an app but a meditation platform where a student might mix various techniques, teachings, styles... etc... https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=uk.co.telesense.tm.free https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=uk.co.telesens...
  - nprateem 5y ago
    I like Medativo as a timer and Prana Breath for pranayama/breathing exercises.
  - criddell 5y ago
    Would a dedicated timer be better than an app? There are a few things that I started with the app version and eventually upgraded to a dedicated device - a metronome, guitar tuner, and ereader are ones that I have near me right now.
- BlissWaves 5y ago
  Just use a timer?
  - throwaway4good 5y ago
simonebrunozzi 5y ago
Perhaps we don't need an app to meditate? Does everything need to have a tie to tech and the latest gizmo?
- Tenoke 5y ago
  While I am not a fan of meditation, there is a large variety and some of them can definitely benefit from an app - e.g. guided meditation, meditation for specific time intervals etc.
  - alexilliamson 5y ago
    If you're not a fan of meditation how can you speak to the benefits of different techniques?
    - Tenoke 5y ago
      I'm not a fan of cooking either but I can recognize when a tool can be beneficial for it.
      - meiraleal 5y ago
        No, you can't. If you don't cook you will not understand the differences of the various types of knifes, forks, spoons...
        Tenoke 5y ago
        Sure, and I might not understand which app would be best here but I can tell an app can be helpful just like I can tell that a spray bottle can be useful in cooking even if I can't tell which would be the very best one or which cooking styles it will benefit the most.
        bartread 5y ago
        Not a fan of cooking != doesn't cook I'm not really a fan of cooking either but I still do it most days. It is possible to know something about a thing, have experience of a thing, have some useful insight into tools that are useful for it, all without enjoying said thing.
mettamage 5y ago
I'm up for brainstorming features. I'm not building a meditation app, but I'm a big fan of meditation, especially metta meditation ;-) Email is in profile
- tmshu1 5y ago
  Thanks! Reached out :)
sAbakumoff 5y ago
I have been meditating for several years. At start I was obsessed with using a tracking app, namely Insight Timer. I looked at statistics for my sessions every day and even sometime bragged about time that I spent on the cushion. Some girls were really impressed ;) Nowadays - I am using a countdown timer on my watch, don't give a fig about statistics and just enjoy my precious time on cushion :)
tmshu1 5y ago
Author here, looks like my site is down! Here's the archived link: https://web.archive.org/web/20210706220321/https://troyshu.com/2021/07/06/why-i-left-my-tech-job-to-build-a-meditation-app-while-traveling-the-world/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210706220321/https://troyshu.c...
- tmshu1 5y ago
  Site is back up, fyi
alberth 5y ago
My “meditation app” is turning on the Do Not Disturb functionality on my phone.
dr-detroit 5y ago
Stunning 8K resolution meditation app
pyrophane 5y ago
I used to love Insight Timer. It was a really good meditation timer! It provided a number of pleasing sounds and was really configurable. Then came the social features. They actually weren’t bad. You could create a profile and track your meditation, and you’d get messages from people all over the world thanking you for “meditating with them.” Then the app was sold to a couple of meditation entrepreneurs. It took a little while, but soon the app wasn’t a nice meditation timer any longer. It was a platform for people to share and sell guided meditations. The timer feature was de-emphasized. Login became required. They added courses, group meditations, sleep stories. The timer is still in there if you can find it, only now some features are restricted to Insight Timer premium members who pay $60/year. —- I think the app was at its best right before it was sold. Sign in was optional, and while the social features felt a bit superfluous they were quirky and fun, and also easily turned off.
d4rkp4ttern 5y ago
Most meditation apps seem to assume the user is already motivated to learn meditation. What if you instead focus on convincing them that meditation can benefit them, and then guide them once they are onboard with the idea of meditation itself? Motivation is the biggest barrier. Most people might wait until there are “problems” and turn to meditation (even then it might be hard to convince them), but if you crack the motivation problem, you could be on to something.

98 points by tmshu1 5y ago

brunoqc 5y ago

Any good non-subscription mediation app out there?

jonathankoren 5y ago
There’s several that if all you want is a breath timer. Sometimes that’s even unlocked on the subscription apps. But there’s a lot of crappy apps out there.
option_greek 5y ago
Traditionally, meditation is taught by various lineages of thought masters without any thought of money or profit. Here is one belonging to heartfulness practice: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hfn.unified https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hfn.unifie...
tfehring 5y ago
https://meditofoundation.org/ https://meditofoundation.org/
azundo 5y ago
If you can't afford it, you can get Waking Up for free. If you can afford it I think it's worth the price.
- nscalf 5y ago
  Waking Up is a great non-mystical type of meditation app. I strongly recommend checking this out if you’re at all turned off by the voodoo surrounding meditation.
- tmshu1 5y ago
  I'm personally a huge fan of Waking Up! Have been a long time user. I'm looking to bring a different experience to the table to address the underlying needs of why anyone would want to use a meditation app, or even start to do meditation without one, in the first place
ryannevius 5y ago
Insight Timer. But as another sibling comment mentioned, Waking Up is worth the money; and if you can't afford a subscription, they'll give you a free one.
jstx1 5y ago
Oak. It's only on iOS but it has no subscription and it's by far my favorite meditation app.
j7ake 5y ago
One can download a good youtube guided meditation video on your phone and play it over and over again while meditating.
- BlissWaves 5y ago
  lets build an app for that

jonathankoren 5y ago

I’ve downloaded a lot of mediation apps and they all seem same. Throw rhythmic breathing (maybe make it configurable, but not too configurable), mix in some simple animations, and the same Creative Commons gongs and bells, and call it a day. Hire some people to do some voice overs for “guided meditations”, and charge a $50 monthly subscription fee. I even started to make my own until I discovered you couldn’t get haptics to work in your own app like how haptics work in Apple’s Breathe watch app. So my question is simple: in a crowded space with low barriers to entry, how do you plan differentiate your app?

jdmg94 5y ago
This post could’ve been about a to-do list app and it wouldn’t change the overall feeling of privilege from the author, all the best for him but you can’t pass this as some inspirational type of post
- jonathankoren 5y ago
  It’s pretty much a content free blog post. I’m surprised it ended up on the front page.
salt-thrower 5y ago
It's nice to see a renewed public interest in meditation driving the trend of new meditation apps, but I feel that most of the apps miss the point. The act of meditating is marketed as an individualistic, prescriptive activity for stress and anxiety; it is absent any of the spiritual content that (for me) makes it potent. To elaborate, I personally didn't get much out of meditation until I starting using it to sit with concepts like impermanence, non-attachment, and oneness from the Zen tradition. By contrast, apps like Headspace are selling themselves like "feeling anxious? Try our app!" and getting corporate sponsorships for employers to give subscriptions to their employees, like a commodity to pacify a stressed out workforce. But who knows, maybe it's still a net good in that it might introduce more people to the practice. And maybe some of the apps get deeper into the practice than the ones I used.
- 5y ago

fermentation 5y ago

Congrats! This is something I'd love to do one day if I find myself not tied to a location by social connections. This stuck out to me: > I decided to focus on building a meditation app as my main project. I came up with the idea because I saw others around me struggling to stick to meditation... Do you expect another meditation app to help with this? I think many folks interested in mediation quickly find a good beginner/handhold-y app like Headspace. Yet, like language learning w/ Duolingo, few people actually stick to it. I think Duolingo and Headspace are awesome and to be honest, if I can't make something stick with these two I'm not sure how an app could be "better" at making me stick to something.

tmshu1 5y ago
Thank you for the kind words! Headspace and other apps are great for meditation beginners. You mentioned Duolingo as an example that has made language learning more fun and thus easier to stick to. Similarly, I think there's a lot of room for improvement in how people learn meditation. I approach habit development from a different angle though: sticking to a habit comes after certain conditions are met, and it's not just about "gamifying" everything. There are ways to learn meditation that make the practice itself much more meaningful, and thus easier to stick to.
conductr 5y ago
I think meditation is the new diet fad. People try it but generally will not stick with it long term. Maybe they’ll try a different type of meditation (diet). A vocal minority will have success and life change that continues to inspire and fuel the trend. But as a business, high churn ahead is my guess.

completeb0ll0c 5y ago

My meditation trick is to put all gadgets away and take a nap in my hammock.

cercatrova 5y ago
Meditation is physiologically different from sleep and each confers benefits that the other does not.
- errorproxy 5y ago
  He was pranking you.
  - cercatrova 5y ago
    I know but I replied just so on the off chance that a reader might've thought they're both the same, which I've thought before actually, so just wanted to clear up that misconception.
  - kjaftaedi 5y ago
    We tend to give people the benefit of the doubt because these types of comments are generally discouraged. There are a list of posting guidelines linked at the bottom that all new users are recommended to familiarize themselves with.

nobody0 5y ago

Probably the essence of meditation is not to be borrowing power from the outside. You are entering that mode by yourself.

datadawg 5y ago

Thanks for sharing Troy! I imagine it's not easy to build in public and to write in public when you don't necessarily have it all figured out. Respect your willingness to put yourself out there as you figure it out, and looking forward to learning alongside you on your journey.

tmshu1 5y ago
Thank you so much for your kindness! Putting myself out there definitely isn't easy. I have a ton to learn, and always will. Looking forward to continuing the adventure and sharing more!

username90 5y ago

Why would you need to quit your job to make a meditation app? Can't you make one in a few days? They don't have any social elements etc, just an app that plays music and notifications.

froh 5y ago
and turn off and back on notifications and calls. and dim the screen. and collect the progres. and allow for intermediate "checkpoint" dings . and are flexibly configurable. and allow for guided meditations. definitively minimize power consumption. etcetcetc ps: for a backend think about collecting meditation statistics, and pulling in meditator networking, online meditation groups, running longitudinal meditation studies "how was your sit" and other parameters... if you eont put that into the meditation app you want the meditation app to send notifications to the other apps, so add events and notifications to the no-backend list above. point being: its more than a timer and notifications.
- BlissWaves 5y ago
  Not to mention, a double-blind questionairre following a meditation, meditator ELO score and finally match-making based on said score.
  - froh 5y ago
    how could I forget about the meditator ELO score! competitive meditation! rankings! you made my day :-)
coldtea 5y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
- mylons 5y ago
  this is my favorite response to something like this

carrolldunham 5y ago

It just seems like several thousand people already had this exact sequence of thoughts and did the exact same thing and so there are several hundred meditation apps that nobody really needs and that don't really benefit anybody except the indulgent scrounger who set out to monetize something that should be and already is offered free. If you're "not sticking to" meditation you don't need a different app, you need to realize that you valuing other things over it that are pulling you out.

queueworker 5y ago

For the author: if you need some inspiration from another meditation/breathing app, check https://github.com/mmazzarolo/breathly-app https://github.com/mmazzarolo/breathly-app

tmshu1 5y ago
Thank you for sharing your meditation/breathing app and code! I really appreciate the kind gesture. I'll definitely take a look to learn more about what kinds of things people need/want.

barrenko 5y ago

You don't need meditation apps (or to build one). You need meditation. But that hinges on realizing you're a junkie.

okokwhatever 5y ago

To enjoy a meaningful life. That's the correct path dude. Congrats

holografix 5y ago

I mean absolutely no offence but I’m afraid you’ll do a lot of meditating on why you left a secure job to build something no one needs.

_hao 5y ago

If I want to meditate I don't want to have my phone or a computer anywhere near me. Having an app "guide" you is essentially another distraction you'll have to eliminate.

jstx1 5y ago
The usual progression is from doing guided meditation as a beginner to eventually using the app as a simple timer with no guidance at all.
- tmshu1 5y ago
  Exactly. And this general progression is what my app will promote and help cultivate. The goal is to help you develop such a strong meditation habit, one that you'll want to stick to and be able to without effort, that you don't need my or any other meditation app for anything at all (except maybe a timer).
- ctvo 5y ago
  The usual progression is sitting. Just sitting. What your talking about is tech folks seeing the benefits of meditation and looking for shortcuts. If it works for you go for it.
  - canes123456 5y ago
    Tech folks didn’t invent guided meditations. There was already seminars, classes, retreat, etc where some one explained how to mediate or walked you though mediation. People just randomly start sitting.
arthur_sav 5y ago
I've been meditation in silence for years. Never found something more annoying than a "guiding voice".
- criddell 5y ago
  You didn't use any kind of a guide for your first few sessions? You sat in silence on day 1?

errorproxy 5y ago

solutionism

tmshu1 5y ago
"the belief that every problem has a solution based in technology" I'm not very well versed in this idea, curious to learn and read more. Have any recommended books? What do you think about this one https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13587160-to-save-everything-click-here https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13587160-to-save-everyth...? I personally believe that all problems are, at their core, human problems. Hence why the focus on meditation as an Archimedes lever. Technology helps us solve problems at scale, but it has to be applied "mindfully". Technology is always a double-edged sword (see Facebook)
- errorproxy 5y ago
  I just heard it in the T.V. show, Silicon Valley. They defined it as addressing problems that don't exist. I always think about battery powered spinning forks. I've been to a Vipassana camp and every day for 10 days we would meditate for 12 hours a day in a hall. As people have for more than 2000 years. I'm in no way a meditation guru nor a traditionalist but any app that would give you stimulus whether it be through vibrations or visual/verbal instructions would take away from the grounding and mindful experience. I am confident that most people who buy meditation apps don't actually meditate for more than a few days. We all already have a meditation app. It's a the clock app, you can set an alarm on it. Similar to those people who buy a expensive ellipticals or bikes and never use it. Peloton regret is a real thing. I think this is a first world problem regarding consumerism. Capitalist society and the higher ups convincing us to worship money. Where we put all our energy into obtaining money in order to put it back in the system. Man has successfully domesticated man. If anyone really wanted to meditate, they would just do it. Maybe look up how to do it, then do it. But we live in an app world today, it is what it is. I just realized you're the poster of the article. I don't mean to say what you're doing is pointless but it'd be cooler if you made a meditation app that locked the phone or something totally different than the other apps. What do you mean by: "I personally believe that all problems are, at their core, human problems. Hence why the focus on meditation as an Archimedes lever." Yes, tech should solve problems mindfully which is why I always see meditation apps and the like to be oxymoronic. Our brains did not evolve at the rate our technology did, it is nigh impossible to be mindful with technology. We also did not evolve to work and play on computers all day and we are now seeing the psychological and physiological epidemic of problems. That's why people in the cities go camping to "unplug". That's why there a movement of high income industrious workers like yourself quitting and picking up manual labor jobs. Making things with your hands is far more fulfilling than coding small parts in a multi billion dollar app. It's just how our brains and bodies work. I believe this is another fundamental problem with humans today, up there with consumerism. Your Memento chrome extension is pretty sick though and is pretty mindful. I just installed it. Thanks for reading this probably incoherent rant.

deleted 5y ago

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gabereiser 5y ago

Ignore the naysayers in this thread. They have never experienced assisted meditation before. The biggest impact in my life (outside of having kids) was when I discovered Qi-gong and the power of assisted meditation. The thing that clicked the most for me was having calm soothing meditation music to help enter the trance state of consciousness. My mind tends to wander and focusing on the sound helped deliver clear thought.

tmshu1 5y ago
Thank you for your support. It's amazing how technology influences us, and how we influence technology. Meditation or any other practice is no different. I keep hearing about this kids thing, gonna have to get on that soon...
emptysongglass 5y ago
Meditation isn't a "trance state". There are recurring refutations of this throughout Buddhist literature over the millenia. The answer to a conditioned existence is not more conditioning. Yes, states of refined pleasure can be used as springboards for insight, so-called "jhanas" but they are by no means the dominant method of practice. Seeing through conditioned reality doesn't require any trance or altered state at all, just a lot of practice and time and patience. Qigong is its own thing and should be addressed as its own thing. It's an energy-based practice with various claims to longevity and health through proscribed movements.
- hnzix 5y ago
  > Qigong is its own thing Qigong exercises are very much like guided meditation, almost like kata in martial arts. You can gain the benefits of Qigong as meditation without buying into the energy work as anything other than a metaphor.
  - sorokod 5y ago
    Better leave martial arts out of this. Kata is just a form, a pattern you repeat until the movments are known to the body. If you overload the kata with spiritual/psychological baggage, it isn't martial arts anymore. To quote a teacher, its "Ken before Zen" Disclosure: have been practicing for more then two decades.

cyberpunk 5y ago

I have a bit of a problem with this mindfulness craze, I’m not really precious about Buddhist practices being solely for Buddhists, but these mindfulness programmes are taking a very small aspect of something that has been practiced for millennia without really having a way to deal with the results… most people will feel something after 8 weeks or so of such a practice, however usually after this point, if they’ve not given up, a lot of stuff bubbles to the surface which really you need a proper zen teacher to work through… Someone selling you an 8 week programme to “fix your anxiety” or such, probably doesn’t have the same depth of experience as someone who has practiced Zazen for several decades, there are no shortcuts and it could be harmful. If you really want the real deal, I can recommend you read a couple of Brad Warner books before you commit.

prox 5y ago
As long as you don’t overdo it, a 15-30 minute meditation won’t hurt. I have taught yoga and meditation for over a decade and I have always been very mindful (pun intended) to not make the error of doing the hard stuff that was intended for monasteries. They are basically two different tracks. That said, having a pool of resources to help out would be beneficial to those who meditate and feel they need it.

markthien 5y ago

you didn't leave tech. you just left your desk in the company

throwaway4good 5y ago

I personally think that the meditation app space is under explored. Or rather the dominant players have their business model (a hefty monthly subscription) dictating their app design. So rather than a coaching model, think of a simple tool like a gong or a timer. Much like the original "Sleep Cycle" app, only for mediation (combing a timer with the feedback you can collect via the sensors of a phone).

chewz 5y ago
Making a good meditation timer is not an easy task. I have tried many on both iOS and Android and can recommend only one that suits me - Meditation Timer by Telesense... It is really difficult to filter out all obstructions and notifications. And it takes carefull design to make flexible timer that suits meditator needs. As for meditation coaching app I think there are so many approaches to teaching meditation that there is a space for many more apps. But I doubt that one size fits all approach will ever work... Best approach might be not an app but a meditation platform where a student might mix various techniques, teachings, styles... etc... https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=uk.co.telesense.tm.free https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=uk.co.telesens...
- nprateem 5y ago
  I like Medativo as a timer and Prana Breath for pranayama/breathing exercises.
- criddell 5y ago
  Would a dedicated timer be better than an app? There are a few things that I started with the app version and eventually upgraded to a dedicated device - a metronome, guitar tuner, and ereader are ones that I have near me right now.
BlissWaves 5y ago
Just use a timer?
- throwaway4good 5y ago

simonebrunozzi 5y ago

Perhaps we don't need an app to meditate? Does everything need to have a tie to tech and the latest gizmo?

Tenoke 5y ago
While I am not a fan of meditation, there is a large variety and some of them can definitely benefit from an app - e.g. guided meditation, meditation for specific time intervals etc.
- alexilliamson 5y ago
  If you're not a fan of meditation how can you speak to the benefits of different techniques?
  - Tenoke 5y ago
    I'm not a fan of cooking either but I can recognize when a tool can be beneficial for it.
    - meiraleal 5y ago
      No, you can't. If you don't cook you will not understand the differences of the various types of knifes, forks, spoons...
      - Tenoke 5y ago
        Sure, and I might not understand which app would be best here but I can tell an app can be helpful just like I can tell that a spray bottle can be useful in cooking even if I can't tell which would be the very best one or which cooking styles it will benefit the most.
      - bartread 5y ago
        Not a fan of cooking != doesn't cook I'm not really a fan of cooking either but I still do it most days. It is possible to know something about a thing, have experience of a thing, have some useful insight into tools that are useful for it, all without enjoying said thing.

mettamage 5y ago

I'm up for brainstorming features. I'm not building a meditation app, but I'm a big fan of meditation, especially metta meditation ;-) Email is in profile

tmshu1 5y ago
Thanks! Reached out :)

sAbakumoff 5y ago

I have been meditating for several years. At start I was obsessed with using a tracking app, namely Insight Timer. I looked at statistics for my sessions every day and even sometime bragged about time that I spent on the cushion. Some girls were really impressed ;) Nowadays - I am using a countdown timer on my watch, don't give a fig about statistics and just enjoy my precious time on cushion :)

tmshu1 5y ago

Author here, looks like my site is down! Here's the archived link: https://web.archive.org/web/20210706220321/https://troyshu.com/2021/07/06/why-i-left-my-tech-job-to-build-a-meditation-app-while-traveling-the-world/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210706220321/https://troyshu.c...

tmshu1 5y ago
Site is back up, fyi

alberth 5y ago

My “meditation app” is turning on the Do Not Disturb functionality on my phone.

dr-detroit 5y ago

Stunning 8K resolution meditation app

pyrophane 5y ago

I used to love Insight Timer. It was a really good meditation timer! It provided a number of pleasing sounds and was really configurable. Then came the social features. They actually weren’t bad. You could create a profile and track your meditation, and you’d get messages from people all over the world thanking you for “meditating with them.” Then the app was sold to a couple of meditation entrepreneurs. It took a little while, but soon the app wasn’t a nice meditation timer any longer. It was a platform for people to share and sell guided meditations. The timer feature was de-emphasized. Login became required. They added courses, group meditations, sleep stories. The timer is still in there if you can find it, only now some features are restricted to Insight Timer premium members who pay $60/year. —- I think the app was at its best right before it was sold. Sign in was optional, and while the social features felt a bit superfluous they were quirky and fun, and also easily turned off.

d4rkp4ttern 5y ago

Most meditation apps seem to assume the user is already motivated to learn meditation. What if you instead focus on convincing them that meditation can benefit them, and then guide them once they are onboard with the idea of meditation itself? Motivation is the biggest barrier. Most people might wait until there are “problems” and turn to meditation (even then it might be hard to convince them), but if you crack the motivation problem, you could be on to something.