4 ms·
I played chess in my high school team, but then switched to Go at university. I felt like my mind opened up to more universal concepts of cause-and-effect and h
by AppleCandy 5y ago
I played chess in my high school team, but then switched to Go at university. I felt like my mind opened up to more universal concepts of cause-and-effect and harmony with Go, as opposed to chess which is so narrow and constrained in comparison.
With Go it felt like something "switched on" in my thinking that allowed me to better evaluate life situations and to act with a better appreciation of possible consequences.
When AlphaGo showed superiority, I was dismayed that the "last frontier" of human intellect has been surpassed. Chess being easily defeated long before was one of the reasons I began to disregard it and rather consider Go.
After AlphaGo I began to appreciate that computer superiority doesn't mean an end to human play, as it is like an art. Maybe playing a game of chess or Go is like painting a picture, one with a distinct humanness to it. There is something lifeless and mechanical in GAN-produced pictures, which makes one yearn for a human touch. Although newer generatives like DALL-E are starting to encroach upon this too.
Also, a game is like a vigorous exchange of ideas with a social aspect to be enjoyed.
Anyway, I have to admit that I still have reservations against Chess, as I see it maybe like drawing with crayons on the playground. Each to their own, but I wonder when they will take up a paintbrush and canvas and upgrade to Go.
- mellosouls 5y agoAfter AlphaGo I began to appreciate that computer superiority doesn't mean an end to human play, as it is like an art. Maybe playing a game of chess or Go is like painting a picture, one with a distinct humanness to it. There is something lifeless and mechanical in GAN-produced pictures, which makes one yearn for a human touch. Unfortunately, chess players at least have now been forced to acknowledge the beauty and seeming artistry of modern chess engines - which indicates the "humanness" you cite is probably a perception we will need to re-evaluate. I'm an AGI-sceptic wrt current approaches including the Alpha series, so am not suggesting there is real intelligence there, just that we perhaps have historically assigned a near-spiritual reading to instances of human genius that (at least in the game-playing form discussed here) has now come under question.
- Tarsul 5y agoI have a similar history and opinion regarding chess and Go (maybe not quite as crass). I "liked" chess, whereas I love Go. With Go I really had to learn to picture the next steps on the board, because otherwise you couldn't make more than the easiest steps. Whereas in chess I didn't quite felt the need for that (well, I was a very weak player) but also I simply didn't have the mental capabilites. Only because I loved Go so much is why I really tried to learn to think visually (very tough for me). The difference between Go and Chess for me boils down to the following: Whenever I see a great chess move, I just think: Ah, yes, that's it. Whereas when I see a great Go move, I think: Wow, that's a great move. And smile. It can be really mindbending. At least for me. And that's also why machines being better than humans doesn't change the experience of playing and that's what counts in the end. If people have tried chess and Go and appreciate chess more, so be it. In the end both are only games and should only be played if it's fun.
- pixxel 5y agoI’d like to get into Go. Is there a good website venue for Go, like https://lichess.org https://lichess.org for chess? Many thanks. E: Link format
- ykat7 5y agoRelated: When I first got into chess, I especially enjoyed Lichess's 'learn by playing' feature [1] that covered fundamental and intermediate concepts. I'd love to find something similar to help learn Go. [1]: https://lichess.org/learn/ https://lichess.org/learn/
- bencoder 5y agohttps://online-go.com/ https://online-go.com/ is the main & best web based server (and open source like lichess as well)
- pixxel 5y agoMany thanks!
- cscurmudgeon 5y agoAlphaGo vs Humans is not a straight forward comparison. AlphaGo trained on a few orders of magnitude more games than any human.
- zodiac 5y agoHaha, I kind of had the opposite history (played Go first, got more into chess later and found it more interesting) Still love the community and experience of both games though
- joelfolksy 5y agoIs this a parody? Most of the Go players I've met are thoughtful and well-adjusted - they don't resemble this stereotype at all.