4 ms·

I'm still enraged at the fact a company can afford dropping entire fleet of devices at once and not being obligated to perform at least the minimal steps to ret

I'm still enraged at the fact a company can afford dropping entire fleet of devices at once and not being obligated to perform at least the minimal steps to retain their usefulness. You're leaving the field for good, have no competing product in your own roster and you can't even provide a bootloader unlock? How is this reasonable? Where aren't anyone boycotting MS for this anti-ecofriendly move? Windows phones had a nice hardware and would be useful still at least in some capacity if the software stack could be fiddled with. Now they are just trash.

Synaesthesia 5y ago
This happens all the time with hardware, and software (abandonware, old games ...) Yeah it's quite infuriating that large corporations have so much power and ordinary people don't. That's why movements like FSF and the right to repair movement are so important. We have to take back some basic rights.
- grecy 5y ago
  Interestingly there are laws to prevent this with automobiles - OEMs must produce parts for x years after the vehicle is sold. I wonder if we need similar laws for electronic hardware?
  - skhr0680 5y ago
    Yes
  - jmrm 5y ago
    I don't know in the rest of Europe, but in Spain there is a new law that forces companies to keep spare parts for at least 10 years. I think this is too much for mobile phones, but I find it pretty correct to laptops and other consumer electronics.
    - vitorgrs 5y ago
      Here in Brazil there is a law about providing support for 5 years. If the company don't have a way to fix the problem (lack of parts or same product fixed), they need to give you another better or equivalent product or give the money back.
somebody_amzn 5y ago
They can be fiddled with at will, the boot loader stack has been cracked for those a long time ago. Microsoft didn't bother to fix it. (look at the WPInternals project, through which this is possible) For the Surface RT, they didn't push firmware updates to fix the bugs allowing to unlock it either.
- ZoomZoomZoom 5y ago
  Sorry, but I'm not speaking about reverse engineering. WPInternals doesn't work reliably on all models and it's understandable. As others said already in sibling comments, RE shouldn't be necessary at all.
varispeed 5y ago
To be fair we need a regulation that will force companies to unlock bootloaders when the device hits end of life. But ideally, they should give ability to bring your own bootloader from the start. I hate regulation, but what else can you do if voting with your wallet doesn't work, as majority of people don't understand the issue or don't care and companies have no incentive to behave responsibly. They have a great PR machine about carbon neutrality and all that, who is going to notice some old phone destined to a landfill.
fps_doug 5y ago
Yes. I really would want a bootloader unlock, and unlimited side-loading for Windows Phone 8-10. One last update that enables this would be so awesome, although you'd also need a Visual Studio version that doesn't require a dev account, but there's probably hacks for that. I just like collecting old and obscure HW and actually use it. WP8.1 is unusable: Store shut down, no new apps. Logging in with your live account doesn't work anymore. If you were already logged in, you could keep using it for quite some while, but in January, the calendar stopped syncing with your live account, and since then, it will regularly wipe all appointments you add, so it's completely unusable, even without cloud sync. MSN weather is also broken, and I can't get an alternative app. Today you can show people how tech from 30 years ago worked. The same isn't true for anything made today, or 10 years ago.
- somebody_amzn 5y ago
  For Windows 10 Mobile, app sideloading with any signature has been implemented since the beginning. You can just install a .appx(bundle) directly, with no dev account system being present unlike WP8(.1).
  - fps_doug 5y ago
    True, that part was specific to WP8(.1), which is actually my favorite. It just seems so lean and no-nonsense, very unmicrosofty.
herbst 5y ago
Who isn't boycotting Microsoft? It's not like this comes with a surprise or a anything. Alternative operating system get better than they ever where, while Microsoft making themself useless. It's not even boycotting, just going with time
bartread 5y ago
Lots of us did "boycott" Microsoft when we chose not to buy Windows phones in the first place. I thought they were nice devices but, after the iPhone came along, followed by the explosion in Android devices, and between them they gobbled up all the market share, Microsoft were never a serious player in that market. The "entire fleet" of devices they ditched was a drop in the ocean from any perspective, including an ecological one: Apple, Samsung, and the like have a far bigger impact there. I'm not saying you're wrong to want some support, or at least the ability to unlock - quite the opposite - but I find your reasoning a little faulty.
pjmlp 5y ago
I still use my Windows Phone, no need to trash it.
- memsom 5y ago
  I have both a Nokia Lumia 735 and a Microsoft Lumia 535. Both still function as phones. Both have Windows 10 Mobile on them too. I liked the OS, and I spent nearly 8 months on them (again, after a hiatus of years) at the end of 2018/start of 2019. But iOS just suits me better these days. Ironically I have an iPhone 6s... it refuses to die and it still getting updates! It makes what Microsoft did with Mobile pretty sad.
nix23 5y ago
I boycott Microsoft since ~2001...well as much as possible...
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
>you can't even provide a bootloader unlock? How is this reasonable? We lost that chance when we didn't treat smartphones like computers when it started performing functions of a computer, Then Appstore/Playstore happend and now they are literally the first computer for majority of world population but rather than bringing regulations to treat phones like computers, Manufacturers are now allowed to make computers like phones.

Synaesthesia 5y ago

This happens all the time with hardware, and software (abandonware, old games ...) Yeah it's quite infuriating that large corporations have so much power and ordinary people don't. That's why movements like FSF and the right to repair movement are so important. We have to take back some basic rights.

grecy 5y ago
Interestingly there are laws to prevent this with automobiles - OEMs must produce parts for x years after the vehicle is sold. I wonder if we need similar laws for electronic hardware?
- skhr0680 5y ago
  Yes
- jmrm 5y ago
  I don't know in the rest of Europe, but in Spain there is a new law that forces companies to keep spare parts for at least 10 years. I think this is too much for mobile phones, but I find it pretty correct to laptops and other consumer electronics.
  - vitorgrs 5y ago
    Here in Brazil there is a law about providing support for 5 years. If the company don't have a way to fix the problem (lack of parts or same product fixed), they need to give you another better or equivalent product or give the money back.

somebody_amzn 5y ago

They can be fiddled with at will, the boot loader stack has been cracked for those a long time ago. Microsoft didn't bother to fix it. (look at the WPInternals project, through which this is possible) For the Surface RT, they didn't push firmware updates to fix the bugs allowing to unlock it either.

ZoomZoomZoom 5y ago
Sorry, but I'm not speaking about reverse engineering. WPInternals doesn't work reliably on all models and it's understandable. As others said already in sibling comments, RE shouldn't be necessary at all.

varispeed 5y ago

To be fair we need a regulation that will force companies to unlock bootloaders when the device hits end of life. But ideally, they should give ability to bring your own bootloader from the start. I hate regulation, but what else can you do if voting with your wallet doesn't work, as majority of people don't understand the issue or don't care and companies have no incentive to behave responsibly. They have a great PR machine about carbon neutrality and all that, who is going to notice some old phone destined to a landfill.

fps_doug 5y ago

Yes. I really would want a bootloader unlock, and unlimited side-loading for Windows Phone 8-10. One last update that enables this would be so awesome, although you'd also need a Visual Studio version that doesn't require a dev account, but there's probably hacks for that. I just like collecting old and obscure HW and actually use it. WP8.1 is unusable: Store shut down, no new apps. Logging in with your live account doesn't work anymore. If you were already logged in, you could keep using it for quite some while, but in January, the calendar stopped syncing with your live account, and since then, it will regularly wipe all appointments you add, so it's completely unusable, even without cloud sync. MSN weather is also broken, and I can't get an alternative app. Today you can show people how tech from 30 years ago worked. The same isn't true for anything made today, or 10 years ago.

somebody_amzn 5y ago
For Windows 10 Mobile, app sideloading with any signature has been implemented since the beginning. You can just install a .appx(bundle) directly, with no dev account system being present unlike WP8(.1).
- fps_doug 5y ago
  True, that part was specific to WP8(.1), which is actually my favorite. It just seems so lean and no-nonsense, very unmicrosofty.

herbst 5y ago

Who isn't boycotting Microsoft? It's not like this comes with a surprise or a anything. Alternative operating system get better than they ever where, while Microsoft making themself useless. It's not even boycotting, just going with time

bartread 5y ago

Lots of us did "boycott" Microsoft when we chose not to buy Windows phones in the first place. I thought they were nice devices but, after the iPhone came along, followed by the explosion in Android devices, and between them they gobbled up all the market share, Microsoft were never a serious player in that market. The "entire fleet" of devices they ditched was a drop in the ocean from any perspective, including an ecological one: Apple, Samsung, and the like have a far bigger impact there. I'm not saying you're wrong to want some support, or at least the ability to unlock - quite the opposite - but I find your reasoning a little faulty.

pjmlp 5y ago

I still use my Windows Phone, no need to trash it.

memsom 5y ago
I have both a Nokia Lumia 735 and a Microsoft Lumia 535. Both still function as phones. Both have Windows 10 Mobile on them too. I liked the OS, and I spent nearly 8 months on them (again, after a hiatus of years) at the end of 2018/start of 2019. But iOS just suits me better these days. Ironically I have an iPhone 6s... it refuses to die and it still getting updates! It makes what Microsoft did with Mobile pretty sad.

nix23 5y ago

I boycott Microsoft since ~2001...well as much as possible...

Abishek_Muthian 5y ago

>you can't even provide a bootloader unlock? How is this reasonable? We lost that chance when we didn't treat smartphones like computers when it started performing functions of a computer, Then Appstore/Playstore happend and now they are literally the first computer for majority of world population but rather than bringing regulations to treat phones like computers, Manufacturers are now allowed to make computers like phones.