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That's why I deliberately used Australian English as an example. It's not clear why most people would intuitively not stigmatize a speaker of Australian English

by bedobi 5y ago

That's why I deliberately used Australian English as an example. It's not clear why most people would intuitively not stigmatize a speaker of Australian English, but (consciously or otherwise) simultaneously stigmatize a speaker of AAVE, or even someone who speaks perfectly grammatical Standard American English, but merely with an African American accent. In the latter case, they're both just grammatical standard english with different pronounciation. (if anything, an African American speaking grammatical Standard English, with an African American accent only, is less foreign, since the speaker is speaking, well, standard American English, whereas the Australian would be speaking not only with different pronounciation but with slightly different grammar and vocab etc as well) Is it because Australian English is an official prestige standard, albeit not in North America? > Instead of telling a student that his English is wrong, instruct him in the differences been his vernacular and the standard dialect. I agree, but sadly while this seems to be the consensus advice from linguists, in practice, telling people their manner of speech is wrong (explicitly or through just stigmatizing them in other ways) is still widespread both in schools, at work and in other contexts.

curryst 5y ago
It doesn't seem shocking to me that AAVE is stigmatized (not that it's right to do so). AAVE re-uses Standard American English words and grammar in different ways. I think it was you up above that brought up the habitual be. If you're not familiar with AAVE, you're probably going to misinterpret it. That stands in contrast to many of the other English dialects, where things are generally either clear from context, or so foreign you have no idea what to make of it and have to ask. That ability to misinterpret creates confusion, which people don't like. "She be working" could either mean that she's been working a lot recently in AAVE, or a strange way of saying that she is currently at work. Appalachian English, for example, doesn't have pitfalls like that. "They was a-going way over yonder" has grammatical differences, but they don't particularly change the meaning. I would expect most people to be able to infer the meaning of that (presuming they know what "yonder" means). The second, and probably more important, factor is people's exposure. The portrayal of AAVE in media is not good. I couldn't tell you the last time I saw a character in a show or movie that spoke AAVE, was well educated or prestigious, and wasn't some kind of a shaman, voodoo priest or similar. I don't think I've ever seen a doctor or lawyer on TV that spoke AAVE. The characters that speak AAVE are almost universally poor, usually not very smart, and often involved in either crime or some kind of mysticism. It builds a stereotype around people who speak AAVE, especially since I think most of us have very little exposure to it. Fwiw, there are other English dialects that are similarly stigmatized. Appalachian English is heavily stigmatized, as is the more general southern dialect, though to less of a degree. The Cockney accent/dialect is similarly stigmatized, and it seems like for similar reasons.

by bedobi 5y ago

curryst 5y ago

It doesn't seem shocking to me that AAVE is stigmatized (not that it's right to do so). AAVE re-uses Standard American English words and grammar in different ways. I think it was you up above that brought up the habitual be. If you're not familiar with AAVE, you're probably going to misinterpret it. That stands in contrast to many of the other English dialects, where things are generally either clear from context, or so foreign you have no idea what to make of it and have to ask. That ability to misinterpret creates confusion, which people don't like. "She be working" could either mean that she's been working a lot recently in AAVE, or a strange way of saying that she is currently at work. Appalachian English, for example, doesn't have pitfalls like that. "They was a-going way over yonder" has grammatical differences, but they don't particularly change the meaning. I would expect most people to be able to infer the meaning of that (presuming they know what "yonder" means). The second, and probably more important, factor is people's exposure. The portrayal of AAVE in media is not good. I couldn't tell you the last time I saw a character in a show or movie that spoke AAVE, was well educated or prestigious, and wasn't some kind of a shaman, voodoo priest or similar. I don't think I've ever seen a doctor or lawyer on TV that spoke AAVE. The characters that speak AAVE are almost universally poor, usually not very smart, and often involved in either crime or some kind of mysticism. It builds a stereotype around people who speak AAVE, especially since I think most of us have very little exposure to it. Fwiw, there are other English dialects that are similarly stigmatized. Appalachian English is heavily stigmatized, as is the more general southern dialect, though to less of a degree. The Cockney accent/dialect is similarly stigmatized, and it seems like for similar reasons.