5 ms·

What an incredibly level-headed write-up. Imagine working somewhere for 17 years and then facing this: > The full story is complex but effectively a bureaucra

What an incredibly level-headed write-up. Imagine working somewhere for 17 years and then facing this: > The full story is complex but effectively a bureaucratic mistake led to my position falling into question, despite plenty of support for keeping me around from my immediate management chain. I’ll just go ahead and admit that had this happened to me, I would certainly act a bit more salty over it.

nly 5y ago
What is he implying here? He was told he could work remotely and then they went back on it?
- vishnugupta 5y ago
  > my position falling into question I interpreted it as the powers that be began to question the value of his role/position.
  - paganel 5y ago
    That was my interpretation, too. One would think that after 17 years at a company like Google one wouldn't need to have "to prove" himself/herself anymore, crazy.
    - vishnugupta 5y ago
      Unfortunately this is not an isolated case. I have seen it play out way too often with individual contributors (ICs). I have been in enough promo committees to recognise a pattern. You have an IC performing perfectly fine, year after year, producing high quality work. After 3rd or 4th year of them staying in a position some senior director raises the inevitable question; "why is this person not being put up for promotion?" which then leads to "why are they not growing". The person in question is just not interested in growth-treadmill anymore but no, our system won't let them work peacefully. ICs have to either grow or move out. All the while the management layer who create train wreck after train wreck ("bureaucratic mistake" as the author charitably puts it) will seamlessly glide within and between companies. ICs have to prove relentlessly whereas managers coast along.
      - oblio 5y ago
        Is that the case for seniors, though? I got the impression that once you do move up a bit, the expectation that you have to be growing forever kind of goes away.
    - dblohm7 5y ago
      In this industry, it never ends.
  - thehappypm 5y ago
    Having worked at Microsoft, I can confidently tell you that a surprising number of people with long (10+) year tenures are sitting around collecting huge salaries and barely contributing. Tenure alone doesn’t make for value, and in fact can sometimes go the other way. There was a principal engineer on my team who literally played video games all day. I know the author isn’t in that category at all, but I can imagine that these companies are using the post pandemic time to prune some leeches.
    - dunkelheit 5y ago
      Mirrors my experience. It is almost painful to watch some of these washed-up OG engineers. I worked at a company that followed a similar trajectory to Google (scaled down quite a bit, of course) and there was a special team reserved for those people where they were working on strange and irrelevant problems of their own devising. Presumably to avoid irking any of the hard-driving execs, they reported directly to the CEO. At one point I sat next to them in the office and couldn't help but notice that on any given day there barely was half of them present. I remember thinking that despite them all being filthy rich it was a very unappealing position to end up in. Another guy I worked directly with. He had at some point a couple hundred reports, but downshifted to an ordinary engineer. I was struck by how profoundly chill and unambitious he was, how indifferent to flaws in his code (entirely lacking any kind of engineer's pride). But at least he was doing honest and useful work. The stories they tell are golden though. As an aside, isn't it a strange quirk in our capitalist society that we perceive workers that were vital for early success but then stopped contributing much as "leeches" but early investors who do the same are totally OK and rightfully own their share of the later pie?
      - thehappypm 5y ago
        “ As an aside, isn't it a strange quirk in our capitalist society that we perceive workers that were vital for early success but then stopped contributing much as "leeches" but early investors who do the same are totally OK and rightfully own their share of the later pie?” The distinction here is equity vs payroll. Early investors are paid handsomely in equity. Early employees, typically, are as well, having accumulated stock for a decade plus. However, having early contributors hugely over-impact your payroll isn’t really fair.
- thrwawayxoogler 5y ago
  Xoogler in a throwaway account. If you look at the linked "my move away from California" post, you'll see that he moved to the Portland, Oregon area during the pandemic. * EDIT * He says that he was working out of the Portland office, but the majority of open engineering roles there (not many in total) are very specialized. My guess is that post-pandemic, now that Google offices will be re-opening, they don't want people spread all over the place, and he wasn't willing to move back to California. While his managers were most likely supportive of him working fully remote, Google isn't very flexible when it comes to fully remote work.
  - bruckie 5y ago
    I work at Google's Portland office (well, at least when there's not a pandemic). We're a pretty normal engineering office—although smaller than many, so there are fewer team choices than in larger offices. Google has become remarkably flexible over the past few months when it comes to fully remote work (see press from May, e.g. https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/05/tech/google-office-remote-work-pandemic/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/05/tech/google-office-remote-wor...). Not quite as flexible as some companies, but it's night-and-day compared to a couple of years ago. The "now that Google offices will be re-opening, they don't want people spread all over the place" conjecture doesn't match what I'm seeing internally; in fact, quite the opposite: there's a much higher acceptance of remote work / "spreading all over the place" than in the past.

nly 5y ago

What is he implying here? He was told he could work remotely and then they went back on it?

vishnugupta 5y ago
> my position falling into question I interpreted it as the powers that be began to question the value of his role/position.
- paganel 5y ago
  That was my interpretation, too. One would think that after 17 years at a company like Google one wouldn't need to have "to prove" himself/herself anymore, crazy.
  - vishnugupta 5y ago
    Unfortunately this is not an isolated case. I have seen it play out way too often with individual contributors (ICs). I have been in enough promo committees to recognise a pattern. You have an IC performing perfectly fine, year after year, producing high quality work. After 3rd or 4th year of them staying in a position some senior director raises the inevitable question; "why is this person not being put up for promotion?" which then leads to "why are they not growing". The person in question is just not interested in growth-treadmill anymore but no, our system won't let them work peacefully. ICs have to either grow or move out. All the while the management layer who create train wreck after train wreck ("bureaucratic mistake" as the author charitably puts it) will seamlessly glide within and between companies. ICs have to prove relentlessly whereas managers coast along.
    - oblio 5y ago
      Is that the case for seniors, though? I got the impression that once you do move up a bit, the expectation that you have to be growing forever kind of goes away.
  - dblohm7 5y ago
    In this industry, it never ends.
- thehappypm 5y ago
  Having worked at Microsoft, I can confidently tell you that a surprising number of people with long (10+) year tenures are sitting around collecting huge salaries and barely contributing. Tenure alone doesn’t make for value, and in fact can sometimes go the other way. There was a principal engineer on my team who literally played video games all day. I know the author isn’t in that category at all, but I can imagine that these companies are using the post pandemic time to prune some leeches.
  - dunkelheit 5y ago
    Mirrors my experience. It is almost painful to watch some of these washed-up OG engineers. I worked at a company that followed a similar trajectory to Google (scaled down quite a bit, of course) and there was a special team reserved for those people where they were working on strange and irrelevant problems of their own devising. Presumably to avoid irking any of the hard-driving execs, they reported directly to the CEO. At one point I sat next to them in the office and couldn't help but notice that on any given day there barely was half of them present. I remember thinking that despite them all being filthy rich it was a very unappealing position to end up in. Another guy I worked directly with. He had at some point a couple hundred reports, but downshifted to an ordinary engineer. I was struck by how profoundly chill and unambitious he was, how indifferent to flaws in his code (entirely lacking any kind of engineer's pride). But at least he was doing honest and useful work. The stories they tell are golden though. As an aside, isn't it a strange quirk in our capitalist society that we perceive workers that were vital for early success but then stopped contributing much as "leeches" but early investors who do the same are totally OK and rightfully own their share of the later pie?
    - thehappypm 5y ago
      “ As an aside, isn't it a strange quirk in our capitalist society that we perceive workers that were vital for early success but then stopped contributing much as "leeches" but early investors who do the same are totally OK and rightfully own their share of the later pie?” The distinction here is equity vs payroll. Early investors are paid handsomely in equity. Early employees, typically, are as well, having accumulated stock for a decade plus. However, having early contributors hugely over-impact your payroll isn’t really fair.
thrwawayxoogler 5y ago
Xoogler in a throwaway account. If you look at the linked "my move away from California" post, you'll see that he moved to the Portland, Oregon area during the pandemic. * EDIT * He says that he was working out of the Portland office, but the majority of open engineering roles there (not many in total) are very specialized. My guess is that post-pandemic, now that Google offices will be re-opening, they don't want people spread all over the place, and he wasn't willing to move back to California. While his managers were most likely supportive of him working fully remote, Google isn't very flexible when it comes to fully remote work.
- bruckie 5y ago
  I work at Google's Portland office (well, at least when there's not a pandemic). We're a pretty normal engineering office—although smaller than many, so there are fewer team choices than in larger offices. Google has become remarkably flexible over the past few months when it comes to fully remote work (see press from May, e.g. https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/05/tech/google-office-remote-work-pandemic/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/05/tech/google-office-remote-wor...). Not quite as flexible as some companies, but it's night-and-day compared to a couple of years ago. The "now that Google offices will be re-opening, they don't want people spread all over the place" conjecture doesn't match what I'm seeing internally; in fact, quite the opposite: there's a much higher acceptance of remote work / "spreading all over the place" than in the past.