4 ms·

Isn't that what being a sailor is like normally though? Surely they can't just get off in the middle of the ocean or at a port where they won't have a visa to s

Isn't that what being a sailor is like normally though? Surely they can't just get off in the middle of the ocean or at a port where they won't have a visa to stay in the country?

devoutsalsa 5y ago
No one likes being confined against their will.
sudosysgen 5y ago
They normally can't but sometimes it does just happen.
selcuka 5y ago
They can certainly fly them back home though.
quickthrower2 5y ago
Psychologically different though. There is a known end time and work to do when normally at sea.
madaxe_again 5y ago
Being in port and being stuck aboard, particularly after a long series of passages, particularly when you expected to be home by now, particularly when you’ve nothing to do, is a very challenging set of circumstances. I know (also, sadly, knew) several mariners who had a very bad time last year. One didn’t make it ashore, after eight months at anchor - eternally cheery pinoy engineer decided he had had enough and opened up the nitrogen tanks. Another friend, in the cruise industry, fared better, but not much - she had overwintered in Antarctica several times previously, and said that spending six months being able to see the lights of port but being unable to go anywhere was infinitely harder. She’s been invited back to work, but isn’t sure she can bring herself to set foot on a ship again.
- mjevans 5y ago
  Maybe that expectation should change, and so should the laws. ... Though there's quite a bit of _should_ on the docket already, and waiting to get to the docket, and in countries that aren't "here" but which constitutes often untold suffering and loss. Maybe thinking bigger would work here. The UN should have a minimum charter of rights for all; and violating that should lead first to a diplomatic notice and deadline for resolution, and then automatic forced war by all member nations against the party in the wrong if those minimum rights are not correctly provided.
  - toomanybeersies 5y ago
    The role of the UN is to prevent wars, not start them. Regardless, the UN already has a minimum charter of rights [1], and the ability to enforce it via the UN Security Council. This can and does (rarely) get used, and it often ends up making things worse. For example, the UN-authorised bombing of Libya in 2011. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human...
    - mjevans 5y ago
      Diplomacy is the preferred route for change. However just as a framework for civil society prefers to avoid violence, sometimes a measured response is required to enforce the desired outcome. This is why thought the UN has a basic foundation, it has not seen adoption. There are no teeth to make that law the rule.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
99% invisible has a nice article / podcast on the subject, mainly focused on what happens if sailors get stuck onboard because of politics and their employers being shit: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/abandoned-ships/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/abandoned-ships/

Isn't that what being a sailor is like normally though? Surely they can't just get off in the middle of the ocean or at a port where they won't have a visa to stay in the country?

devoutsalsa 5y ago

No one likes being confined against their will.

sudosysgen 5y ago

They normally can't but sometimes it does just happen.

selcuka 5y ago

They can certainly fly them back home though.

quickthrower2 5y ago

Psychologically different though. There is a known end time and work to do when normally at sea.

madaxe_again 5y ago

Being in port and being stuck aboard, particularly after a long series of passages, particularly when you expected to be home by now, particularly when you’ve nothing to do, is a very challenging set of circumstances. I know (also, sadly, knew) several mariners who had a very bad time last year. One didn’t make it ashore, after eight months at anchor - eternally cheery pinoy engineer decided he had had enough and opened up the nitrogen tanks. Another friend, in the cruise industry, fared better, but not much - she had overwintered in Antarctica several times previously, and said that spending six months being able to see the lights of port but being unable to go anywhere was infinitely harder. She’s been invited back to work, but isn’t sure she can bring herself to set foot on a ship again.

mjevans 5y ago
Maybe that expectation should change, and so should the laws. ... Though there's quite a bit of _should_ on the docket already, and waiting to get to the docket, and in countries that aren't "here" but which constitutes often untold suffering and loss. Maybe thinking bigger would work here. The UN should have a minimum charter of rights for all; and violating that should lead first to a diplomatic notice and deadline for resolution, and then automatic forced war by all member nations against the party in the wrong if those minimum rights are not correctly provided.
- toomanybeersies 5y ago
  The role of the UN is to prevent wars, not start them. Regardless, the UN already has a minimum charter of rights [1], and the ability to enforce it via the UN Security Council. This can and does (rarely) get used, and it often ends up making things worse. For example, the UN-authorised bombing of Libya in 2011. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human...
  - mjevans 5y ago
    Diplomacy is the preferred route for change. However just as a framework for civil society prefers to avoid violence, sometimes a measured response is required to enforce the desired outcome. This is why thought the UN has a basic foundation, it has not seen adoption. There are no teeth to make that law the rule.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

99% invisible has a nice article / podcast on the subject, mainly focused on what happens if sailors get stuck onboard because of politics and their employers being shit: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/abandoned-ships/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/abandoned-ships/