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I was taught math with the drill style. Being forced on a daily basis into repeatedly solving problems you struggle with, trapped with no ability to escape, by

I was taught math with the drill style. Being forced on a daily basis into repeatedly solving problems you struggle with, trapped with no ability to escape, by people with power over you (eg. parents), having your worth judged based on your ability to solve problems forced upon you, and once you learn a skill your parents find a new weakness to torment you with, is traumatic.

foxes 5y ago
That is not a problem with the drill style per say but toxic teachers and parents. You can make someone drill without tormenting them for failing. I think doing drills is good if done in a supportive setting, but it is also and should not be the only way to teach.
- nextaccountic 5y ago
  Do you know any kid that signed up for math drills? It's nearly always imposed by parents or teachers.
  - odshoifsdhfs 5y ago
    My kid would be super happy with it. His teacher as a 'reward' for doing his language-related stuff on time/quicker, lets him do math worksheets
  - throwyuno 5y ago
    I loved math drills. In first grade we would get a sheet of simple math problems and the teacher would give us 5 minted to complete as many as possible. I was good at it, and it was one of my first experiences of competition and being better at something than my peers. I don’t know if any of that is a good thing, and it definitely would have sucked if I had been slow at math.
  - Aunche 5y ago
    I was certainly more excited by math drills more than attempts to make math "fun."
  - tsumnia 5y ago
    Funny enough, this is my current gripe with learning CS in K-12 settings. The mindset I have on it is "we're just teaching it to them at younger age because they can't say no".
SilverRed 5y ago
Seems like a pretty poor way to really understand math anyway. If you memorize some formula you may learn how to do a specific problem faster but if you teach kids to understand how the formula was built from first principals, not only can they solve the problem, but they understand how to build the solution from scratch rather than pulling a premade solution from the memory bank. Memorizing solutions isn't useful anymore. We have google to list out formulas. A deep understanding of problem solving is far more important and something you cant trivially search.
- varjag 5y ago
  Right now there are students who have trouble opening up algebraic expressions or forget to cancel negatives in multiplication while doing exercises on advanced concepts. All for lack of practice.
  - bigbillheck 5y ago
    Those kinds of kids were common 10, 20, 50, 100, and more years ago.
    - varjag 5y ago
      Now they are ubiquitous. Downplaying it to 'dumb ones' is not helpful when they can solve polynomials without much trouble but are getting burned on concepts that should have been drilled down properly in middle school.
      - bigbillheck 5y ago
        > Now they are ubiquitous They were saying that back in the day as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Johnny_Can%27t_Add https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Johnny_Can%27t_Add
- JackFr 5y ago
  The deep understanding comes after knowing the facts. At a low level, you can point out all the patterns that are in multiplication tables, but they won’t be remembered until the student has internalized the facts. At a higher level, teaching epsilon-delta proofs isn’t a good way to learn calculus. Memorizing the building blocks and the chain rule is.
BoxOfRain 5y ago
That's more of a reflection on the people doing the teaching than the style of teaching itself I think. This is purely anecdotal but I absolutely hated most of my pre-university education as it felt like jumping through completely meaningless hoops. I'll still happily practice scales or musical fragments by rote on my guitar for hours on end though, and this is a very effective method for me. It took me a long time to figure out I actually love learning, it's just that there's a lot more to learning than the industrial-style process that goes on in the average British comprehensive. If a person's approach to educating their kids is coercive ("jump through our hoops or you'll be working at McDonalds your entire life") or downright abusive ("you're a worthless child to us if you don't meet this grade") then the results can be catastrophic. For every success story, this kind of maltreatment will produce many people who give up on learning altogether or drive themselves headfirst into mental illness. I definitely think history will judge this period as a bit of a dark age in education, the fact that people who've long retired still report exam nightmares says a lot about the completely arbitrary and needless pressure we put our children under. In my experience being "well-spoken" (ie having an accent that's fairly close to RP) and being quick at picking things up has served me far better than any qualifications I have, both in the tech industry and out of it.

foxes 5y ago

That is not a problem with the drill style per say but toxic teachers and parents. You can make someone drill without tormenting them for failing. I think doing drills is good if done in a supportive setting, but it is also and should not be the only way to teach.

nextaccountic 5y ago
Do you know any kid that signed up for math drills? It's nearly always imposed by parents or teachers.
- odshoifsdhfs 5y ago
  My kid would be super happy with it. His teacher as a 'reward' for doing his language-related stuff on time/quicker, lets him do math worksheets
- throwyuno 5y ago
  I loved math drills. In first grade we would get a sheet of simple math problems and the teacher would give us 5 minted to complete as many as possible. I was good at it, and it was one of my first experiences of competition and being better at something than my peers. I don’t know if any of that is a good thing, and it definitely would have sucked if I had been slow at math.
- Aunche 5y ago
  I was certainly more excited by math drills more than attempts to make math "fun."
- tsumnia 5y ago
  Funny enough, this is my current gripe with learning CS in K-12 settings. The mindset I have on it is "we're just teaching it to them at younger age because they can't say no".

SilverRed 5y ago

Seems like a pretty poor way to really understand math anyway. If you memorize some formula you may learn how to do a specific problem faster but if you teach kids to understand how the formula was built from first principals, not only can they solve the problem, but they understand how to build the solution from scratch rather than pulling a premade solution from the memory bank. Memorizing solutions isn't useful anymore. We have google to list out formulas. A deep understanding of problem solving is far more important and something you cant trivially search.

varjag 5y ago
Right now there are students who have trouble opening up algebraic expressions or forget to cancel negatives in multiplication while doing exercises on advanced concepts. All for lack of practice.
- bigbillheck 5y ago
  Those kinds of kids were common 10, 20, 50, 100, and more years ago.
  - varjag 5y ago
    Now they are ubiquitous. Downplaying it to 'dumb ones' is not helpful when they can solve polynomials without much trouble but are getting burned on concepts that should have been drilled down properly in middle school.
    - bigbillheck 5y ago
      > Now they are ubiquitous They were saying that back in the day as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Johnny_Can%27t_Add https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Johnny_Can%27t_Add
JackFr 5y ago
The deep understanding comes after knowing the facts. At a low level, you can point out all the patterns that are in multiplication tables, but they won’t be remembered until the student has internalized the facts. At a higher level, teaching epsilon-delta proofs isn’t a good way to learn calculus. Memorizing the building blocks and the chain rule is.

BoxOfRain 5y ago

That's more of a reflection on the people doing the teaching than the style of teaching itself I think. This is purely anecdotal but I absolutely hated most of my pre-university education as it felt like jumping through completely meaningless hoops. I'll still happily practice scales or musical fragments by rote on my guitar for hours on end though, and this is a very effective method for me. It took me a long time to figure out I actually love learning, it's just that there's a lot more to learning than the industrial-style process that goes on in the average British comprehensive. If a person's approach to educating their kids is coercive ("jump through our hoops or you'll be working at McDonalds your entire life") or downright abusive ("you're a worthless child to us if you don't meet this grade") then the results can be catastrophic. For every success story, this kind of maltreatment will produce many people who give up on learning altogether or drive themselves headfirst into mental illness. I definitely think history will judge this period as a bit of a dark age in education, the fact that people who've long retired still report exam nightmares says a lot about the completely arbitrary and needless pressure we put our children under. In my experience being "well-spoken" (ie having an accent that's fairly close to RP) and being quick at picking things up has served me far better than any qualifications I have, both in the tech industry and out of it.