5 ms·

There's so much more to our world than meets the eye. It's a shame we allow those in authoritative positions to tell us how we're allowed to live our lives and

by rufugee 15y ago

There's so much more to our world than meets the eye. It's a shame we allow those in authoritative positions to tell us how we're allowed to live our lives and how we're allowed to explore the universe, both inner and outer. We are all born into the world as naive, ignorant and clueless as all those before us, and NONE of us has the inherent right or wisdom to tell the other what to do. We should each have real free will...it's unfortunate that no such thing actually exists.

Alex3917 15y ago
Many of these drugs will be legal either by prescription or when taken under medical supervision in 15 - 20 years anyway due to the following factors: - The baby boomers who were coming of age in the 60s will become the ones with the most political power in another 10 - 20 years. And the younger generations are more liberal on drug issues in general. - The rising cost of gasoline will encourage more people to move back into the cities, where they will become more liberal. - The exponentially decreasing cost of genetic engineering means the average high school kid will be able to modify algae and yeast to make millions of doses of LSD for no more than a few hundred dollars. - The exponentially falling costs of LED lights means that in another 10 - 15 years people will be able to cheaply grow marijuana indoors without the risk of getting caught by heat sensing helicopters or high electric bills. - The rise of European science, where at least so far it has been somewhat easier for scientists to study drug use in humans without excessive government interference. - The economic costs of the drug war are becoming no longer affordable. - There is going to be an increasingly strong outcry for new medicines that actually work due to an aging population, and due to the extremely high costs and low efficacy of the current system. It's currently politically feasible to let a few hundred thousand people die for no reason each year because no one notices, but once this becomes a few million people each year people are going to start noticing. - Most people just favor what their friends favor and don't really think through the issues. So as more people come to favor various forms of government regulation instead of criminalization there will be some sort of tipping point, similarly to what we've seen with marijuana in many states already. No one of these factors would be enough to tip the balance, but all of them combined are going to cause some powerful changes in society. Currently the FDA is already approving many trials with MDMA, marijuana, psilocybin, and other drugs, so the only real hurdle at this point is the DEA and the white house. And that's not going to last forever, especially since this new lawsuit the ASA is about to file is almost certain to move the needle at least a little.
- randallsquared 15y ago
  The baby boomers who were coming of age in the 60s will become the ones with the most political power in another 10 - 20 years. That was nearly 20 years ago. Clinton was the first boomer president, and Obama is on the cusp of being a GenXer.
  - Alex3917 15y ago
    People are most likely to vote between age 55 and 74. The folks who were coming of age during the 60s are only just approaching 60 - 65 years old now. Similarly, the median age of a US senator is ~62, and 59 of the 435 congressman were born before 1943. The exact numbers are admittedly a little fuzzy, but it's clear that the baby boomers are still going to be replacing the older generation in significant numbers for at least another decade.
  - rufugee 15y ago
    Agreed. I think he underestimates the willingness of people to submit to authority and to sacrifice logical thought for comfort and certainty. Our media and government are both increasingly sophisticated in their abilities to manipulate, coerce, and mislead, and our populace in increasingly willing to ask no hard questions for fear of shattering the daily comfort of the lives we are fed.
- ars 15y ago
  > The exponentially falling costs of LED lights means that in another 10 - 15 years people will be able to cheaply grow marijuana indoors without the risk of getting caught by heat sensing helicopters or high electric bills. No it won't. Fluorescent lights are already better (and always have been better) than LEDs in electrical efficiency. "Perfect" efficiency for white light is 251 lumens/watt. A high quality fluorescent lamp does 100 lumens/watt. There isn't a lot of improvement available. Assuming plants need monochromatic light then perfect is in the 600 range (it depends on the frequency), that still isn't a huge jump from the currently available 100.
- ars 15y ago
  > The rising cost of gasoline will encourage more people to move back into the cities, where they will become more liberal. Except that rents and cost of living are higher in cities, gasoline is a very minor issue for people living in rural areas. Lack of income would be the main issue, and with the rise of the internet and telecommuting, high paying white collar jobs are going to be available anywhere. So if anything the opposite will happen. Also moving to a city doesn't make someone liberal, don't confuse cause and effect!
sliverstorm 15y ago
Key word: "allow". If you don't want to listen, you can always choose not to.
- rufugee 15y ago
  Oh really? Yes, you can refuse to listen. There are these little things called prisons full of those who did. I'm all for imprisoning those who violate the human rights of others: murders, rapists, assault perpetrators, thieves, etc. However, punishing those who have merely done something "wrong" in the eyes of those in "authority" is a travesty in my book.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
hristov 15y ago
Sorry but you are not exploring anything. You are just experiencing hallucinations, paranoias and what have you due to the drugs changing the chemical composition of your brain. That's it, nothing more. There may be more to the world that meets the eye. You may be right about that. I personally believe in God, so I do believe there is more to the world that meets the eye. But the implied message of your post, that we can reach that world by taking drugs makes nosense. Why would drugs make you capable of perceiving something that you are unable to perceive otherwise. You still have the same physical brain and sensing organs. Drugs are just a physical thing acting chemically on the same physical brain and the same physical eyes and ears. Why would drugs make your physical eyes and ears perceive the metaphisical all of sudden? It makes no sense. I mean I would understand if drugs made your hearing or eyesight better, or if they made you see things in wavelengths not visible when you are not on drugs. But to make you see something that cannot be detected on any wavelength even with the best instruments? Why? It makes no sense. And if you believe in God, as I do, why in the world would God choose to reveal himself to only those that take illegal, dangerous and usually expensive drugs? Does God only like the idle rich? Nope that makes no sense either. So, sorry again, but you are living a dangerous fantasy. What you are exploring with hallucinogens are just hallucinations somehow created in the pathways of your brain as a result of the chemical disruptions caused by the drugs. Nothing more. Nothing that actually exists in any way. And as the drugs damage your brain, your hallucinations will get darker and more paranoid and if you do not stop you may go mad. About people telling other people what to do, I do not know about that. If you see a thousand people lose their minds doing LSD and become sad wrecks that can barely do anything with their lives between the acid flashbacks, wouldn't you want to stop number 1001?
- JanezStupar 15y ago
  I think what he means to say is that a lot of what is self evident to people within gears of society is not really that important or valuable. We were born into this wheel, we live within this wheel and the culture gives us no tools to look beyond it (The Proverbial Platon's Cave). Psychedelic drugs give one a chance to experience perception and world from a completely, completely different perspective. A change of perspective may be terrifying for some, for others it may be a blessing. In either way they are a tool, that operates one's brain. If I take an atheist angle. Your belief in God also affects chemical composition of your brain and it also induces paranoias and hallucinations in some, it doesn't help anyone hear or see better. See where I am going? You are beating a straw man here my friend. Also let me inform you that psychedelics should not and usually (except few, few extremes) are not used on daily basis. Hell they are not used on any kind of regular basis, because the experience is supposedly too powerful and one does not feel any kind of crave to do it again very soon after a trip. And another revelation, Idle Rich are not interested into LSD - because it may shake their world a bit too much. They are interested in Cocaine, rough sex and other forms of extreme decadence. Now that shit is dangerous beyond words. Those are the junkies I am afraid of and the sad fact is that we let inmates run the asylum. They are everywhere. Every year I see more and more of proof how Cokeheads are running Western civilization into the ground. p.s.: So you have seen 1000 people lose their minds on LSD?

by rufugee 15y ago

Alex3917 15y ago

Many of these drugs will be legal either by prescription or when taken under medical supervision in 15 - 20 years anyway due to the following factors: - The baby boomers who were coming of age in the 60s will become the ones with the most political power in another 10 - 20 years. And the younger generations are more liberal on drug issues in general. - The rising cost of gasoline will encourage more people to move back into the cities, where they will become more liberal. - The exponentially decreasing cost of genetic engineering means the average high school kid will be able to modify algae and yeast to make millions of doses of LSD for no more than a few hundred dollars. - The exponentially falling costs of LED lights means that in another 10 - 15 years people will be able to cheaply grow marijuana indoors without the risk of getting caught by heat sensing helicopters or high electric bills. - The rise of European science, where at least so far it has been somewhat easier for scientists to study drug use in humans without excessive government interference. - The economic costs of the drug war are becoming no longer affordable. - There is going to be an increasingly strong outcry for new medicines that actually work due to an aging population, and due to the extremely high costs and low efficacy of the current system. It's currently politically feasible to let a few hundred thousand people die for no reason each year because no one notices, but once this becomes a few million people each year people are going to start noticing. - Most people just favor what their friends favor and don't really think through the issues. So as more people come to favor various forms of government regulation instead of criminalization there will be some sort of tipping point, similarly to what we've seen with marijuana in many states already. No one of these factors would be enough to tip the balance, but all of them combined are going to cause some powerful changes in society. Currently the FDA is already approving many trials with MDMA, marijuana, psilocybin, and other drugs, so the only real hurdle at this point is the DEA and the white house. And that's not going to last forever, especially since this new lawsuit the ASA is about to file is almost certain to move the needle at least a little.

randallsquared 15y ago
The baby boomers who were coming of age in the 60s will become the ones with the most political power in another 10 - 20 years. That was nearly 20 years ago. Clinton was the first boomer president, and Obama is on the cusp of being a GenXer.
- Alex3917 15y ago
  People are most likely to vote between age 55 and 74. The folks who were coming of age during the 60s are only just approaching 60 - 65 years old now. Similarly, the median age of a US senator is ~62, and 59 of the 435 congressman were born before 1943. The exact numbers are admittedly a little fuzzy, but it's clear that the baby boomers are still going to be replacing the older generation in significant numbers for at least another decade.
- rufugee 15y ago
  Agreed. I think he underestimates the willingness of people to submit to authority and to sacrifice logical thought for comfort and certainty. Our media and government are both increasingly sophisticated in their abilities to manipulate, coerce, and mislead, and our populace in increasingly willing to ask no hard questions for fear of shattering the daily comfort of the lives we are fed.
ars 15y ago
> The exponentially falling costs of LED lights means that in another 10 - 15 years people will be able to cheaply grow marijuana indoors without the risk of getting caught by heat sensing helicopters or high electric bills. No it won't. Fluorescent lights are already better (and always have been better) than LEDs in electrical efficiency. "Perfect" efficiency for white light is 251 lumens/watt. A high quality fluorescent lamp does 100 lumens/watt. There isn't a lot of improvement available. Assuming plants need monochromatic light then perfect is in the 600 range (it depends on the frequency), that still isn't a huge jump from the currently available 100.
ars 15y ago
> The rising cost of gasoline will encourage more people to move back into the cities, where they will become more liberal. Except that rents and cost of living are higher in cities, gasoline is a very minor issue for people living in rural areas. Lack of income would be the main issue, and with the rise of the internet and telecommuting, high paying white collar jobs are going to be available anywhere. So if anything the opposite will happen. Also moving to a city doesn't make someone liberal, don't confuse cause and effect!

sliverstorm 15y ago

Key word: "allow". If you don't want to listen, you can always choose not to.

rufugee 15y ago
Oh really? Yes, you can refuse to listen. There are these little things called prisons full of those who did. I'm all for imprisoning those who violate the human rights of others: murders, rapists, assault perpetrators, thieves, etc. However, punishing those who have merely done something "wrong" in the eyes of those in "authority" is a travesty in my book.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]

hristov 15y ago

Sorry but you are not exploring anything. You are just experiencing hallucinations, paranoias and what have you due to the drugs changing the chemical composition of your brain. That's it, nothing more. There may be more to the world that meets the eye. You may be right about that. I personally believe in God, so I do believe there is more to the world that meets the eye. But the implied message of your post, that we can reach that world by taking drugs makes nosense. Why would drugs make you capable of perceiving something that you are unable to perceive otherwise. You still have the same physical brain and sensing organs. Drugs are just a physical thing acting chemically on the same physical brain and the same physical eyes and ears. Why would drugs make your physical eyes and ears perceive the metaphisical all of sudden? It makes no sense. I mean I would understand if drugs made your hearing or eyesight better, or if they made you see things in wavelengths not visible when you are not on drugs. But to make you see something that cannot be detected on any wavelength even with the best instruments? Why? It makes no sense. And if you believe in God, as I do, why in the world would God choose to reveal himself to only those that take illegal, dangerous and usually expensive drugs? Does God only like the idle rich? Nope that makes no sense either. So, sorry again, but you are living a dangerous fantasy. What you are exploring with hallucinogens are just hallucinations somehow created in the pathways of your brain as a result of the chemical disruptions caused by the drugs. Nothing more. Nothing that actually exists in any way. And as the drugs damage your brain, your hallucinations will get darker and more paranoid and if you do not stop you may go mad. About people telling other people what to do, I do not know about that. If you see a thousand people lose their minds doing LSD and become sad wrecks that can barely do anything with their lives between the acid flashbacks, wouldn't you want to stop number 1001?

JanezStupar 15y ago
I think what he means to say is that a lot of what is self evident to people within gears of society is not really that important or valuable. We were born into this wheel, we live within this wheel and the culture gives us no tools to look beyond it (The Proverbial Platon's Cave). Psychedelic drugs give one a chance to experience perception and world from a completely, completely different perspective. A change of perspective may be terrifying for some, for others it may be a blessing. In either way they are a tool, that operates one's brain. If I take an atheist angle. Your belief in God also affects chemical composition of your brain and it also induces paranoias and hallucinations in some, it doesn't help anyone hear or see better. See where I am going? You are beating a straw man here my friend. Also let me inform you that psychedelics should not and usually (except few, few extremes) are not used on daily basis. Hell they are not used on any kind of regular basis, because the experience is supposedly too powerful and one does not feel any kind of crave to do it again very soon after a trip. And another revelation, Idle Rich are not interested into LSD - because it may shake their world a bit too much. They are interested in Cocaine, rough sex and other forms of extreme decadence. Now that shit is dangerous beyond words. Those are the junkies I am afraid of and the sad fact is that we let inmates run the asylum. They are everywhere. Every year I see more and more of proof how Cokeheads are running Western civilization into the ground. p.s.: So you have seen 1000 people lose their minds on LSD?