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Ask HN: 30 years old with no career

121 points by holycrapguys 5y ago

I've been out of high school for almost 12 years. And I've never had a job I really loved. I've worked in about 20 different industries from the oilfield to construction to food service, to debt collection, to transportation, to everything in between. Nothing in tech though. Some were possible "good" jobs, but often they're very dangerous. I was an apprentice in a trade that has the potential to earn a lot 5 years in. It's like I work for a bit and I'll get to a point where I just want to quit and be done with it. Or there are conditions I just don't want to put up with anymore so I just walk. I've never felt content or joy at work, which I think is normal, but I also think some other people enjoy their work. It's also part laziness, I can be slothful without a routine. But I just feel so lost. I almost feel too old to keep constantly moving on to something else. Has anybody else been in this situation and come out the other side with meaningful work that they like? And they're able to support themselves? Just feel lost, I guess. Thank you.

FaisalAbid 5y ago
What brings you to Hacker News? Are you looking to get into development?
- holycrapguys 5y ago
  I enjoy the discussions here (for the most part) more than the other social media options. I've done some courses in data analysis, as well as python. I usually lose steam after self teaching after a few months though. I've found it hard to break in without a degree.
  - jey 5y ago
    > I've found it hard to break in without a degree. You don't need a degree if you have substantial projects and put them on your resume. Your resume just needs to convey that you have actually done significant programming work and that you're good at it. If you don't yet have a portfolio of projects, you can start building it now.
    - polishdude20 5y ago
      Yep this. It will take a while to make some projects that you'll be happy to display publicly but this is the cheapest route to go.
      - temp234 5y ago
        The longer I am around the more I realize that pretty much every knowledge worker field or creative field is just about having a rocking public portfolio and passing the van/line/airport test: "Would you want to be stuck in a van/line/airport with this person? Are they respectful and nice?" You can break into a surprising number of industries with time, a good heart, and work samples.
    - curmudgeon22 5y ago
      One option that could help with projects are udemy or similar courses. I've done a couple courses centered around a project, like this one: https://www.udemy.com/course/the-complete-react-native-and-redux-course/learn/lecture/15707554?start=0#overview https://www.udemy.com/course/the-complete-react-native-and-r... You'd probably want to personalize/customize the projects, but could be a good starting point.
  - maximus-decimus 5y ago
    It might be different if you actually had a job and the whole thing was a bit more concrete... but if you don't like self-learning in general, I would highly recommend against becoming a programmer. Everything changes all the time and you have to constantly learn new technologies. On the flip side, this makes it harder to get bored since you're always learning something new.
  - indigodaddy 5y ago
    Perhaps check out this thread. Might give you ideas and/or inspiration. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24670746 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24670746 If you are interested in tech, but want to go a more Linux/sysadmin route vs programming, then there are definitely avenues to get a foot in the tech door that don’t require a degree, or really necessarily, any certs either. You do kinda have to really want it and love it more than the average other person though. A datacenter or hosting NOC (*nix oriented if at all possible; most NOC tech roles will be heavily Linux) Technician can be a fairly easy in, and has the potential to take you down a good career path. The great part about this particular entry level (usually) role, vs some other entry level IT role, is that you will learn a broad swath of internet/networking/linux/DNS/hosting/ security fundamentals that can easily jumpstart you into whatever specific tech path that you discover that you are most interested. After some experience and finding that out, you can then more fine-tune what your next job/role/tech path will/should be and look like. Good luck and I wish you the very best! Stay positive and interested and it’s going to be fine!
schwartzworld 5y ago
Yes, I was very much in your shoes. I was 29 and had only ever waited tables or worked retail. I had no skills that paid and I never finished college. I ended up going to massage therapy school, and I worked doing that for 6 years. During that time I began learning web development, mostly as a way to pass the time on slow work days. As I got better at development I got to a point where I could realistically see it as a career. I began to focus on frontend development because I liked that I could work without dependencies, any computer with a web browser is good enough. Massage is physical work and eventually I got tired of it. my second daughter was on the way and I wasn't going to be able to really make any more as an MT without starting my own business, which I wasn't interested in doing. I got serious about searching for dev work and eventually found something. As a bonus, the 4 years of self study prepared me very well, and i actually enjoy the work. You'd have to to spend 4 years studying.
tyronehed 5y ago
Started my first programming job at age 35. No experience. Now, 24 years later, I am doing great. It's never too late.
francislata 5y ago
When it comes to the feeling of laziness, maybe having a mentor or a friend keeping you accountable might help in some way? Even if you tried it once and given up on it, maybe this time around it will turn out to be awesome for you.
deleted 5y ago
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sinac 5y ago
If you haven’t already, try reading Mastery by George Leonard. Some of his examples / narrative choices are dated but if you can look past that it’s got great insights. It’s a piece of the puzzle but can provide some orientation.
- holycrapguys 5y ago
  Never heard of it I'll put it on my list.
curmudgeon22 5y ago
Yeah, I went through similar, interspersed with small bouts of university and some travel. Until my late 20's, I worked in construction, kitchens, call centers, hotels, saw mills and more. I wouldn't worry about the 'laziness' bit, I think most people are like that and it sounds like you've provided for yourself. I ended up getting a 2 year diploma in computer science (BCIT if it's relevant to you. I was happy with the program, but some folks didn't have as good of results). For a long time, no jobs etc.. really stuck, nor did university the first time I tried. A 2 year program was good, because it didn't require as long of a time commitment to get something out of it. This one also had the option to do another 2 years (either right away or later) to finish the degree. I'm in my second job since school now. I've never found something where I feel "joy" at work, but I'm very happy with the most recent one. Most jobs are annoying a lot of the time I think. Money and future prospects are much better than my random jobs earlier in life. I changed cities when I went to school even though I could have found similar programs in my home town. The change of scenery was helpful I think. I guess I have 3 main takeaways: - I don't think you need to feel like something is a perfect fit/joy. Good enough is OK. - Don't worry about having "wasted" years. I think life experience counts for a lot and a diverse background can be a strength. - I never did in my late 20's or early 30's, but I think about retirement money a lot more now. People how started careers earlier and were smart with their $ have a big advantage over latercomers.
- plow-tycoon 5y ago
  I've worked with at least 3 people in the lower mainland who did that program at BCIT and would be in your age range. I wonder if we're former colleagues.
dwaltrip 5y ago
Do you have stability and harmony in your life outside of work? Any shit from your past that is brewing underneath the surface?
joe_momma 5y ago
You have to be driven and use all the free resources you can because there is some kid out there who is and will get the job. You want to break in, learn mobile programming. Projects and demands still allow newbies off the street to make it. The web is easy but really confusing if you haven't paid attention the past decade. Mobile apps always have something new to fiddle with. Good luck.
abootstrapper 5y ago
I worked a programming job out of college for 4 years. Then I quit and did some of this and that for 14 years. Just got my 2nd full time programming job at 40 years old. I’m sharing this to let you know it’s possible and you’re still young.
zrail 5y ago
One thing to try is talking to a therapist about all this. There are a number of conditions that can lead someone to a life like yours, most of which can be managed with some coping skills.
- adnmcq999 5y ago
  Therapist might help. Ppl have told me to do that, and I guess I’ve technically been once or twice a long time ago before I could make the decision myself BUT… I don’t think there is necessarily anything wrong with OP for feeing this. There’s a reason why Office Space is popular. I sometimes think there’s something wrong with the people I know who like their bullshit jobs or take their work seriously. Either deluded or really good at acting.
  - larrywright 5y ago
    Don’t underestimate the power of changing the way you look at things in your life, which a therapist can help with.
  - sarajevo 5y ago
    A different perspective always helps. I know someone who had issues focusing and deferring gratification, she’s doing better now. I am not diagnosing and this is just a random example where therapy helped... bTW, my dad retired without knowing what he “really” wanted to do...
- holycrapguys 5y ago
  I'm open to it. Do you do it? Can you give me an example or recommendation? Where I get hung up on therapy is that there's 100 different types. And it's an expensive endeavor to have so much leeway.
  - maaneeack 5y ago
    If you have insurance and a primary care doctor, ask them for a referral. If not, you don't need someone with a specialization to start, find a "therapist". There's that talkspace online option as well.
pmoriarty 5y ago
One thing you might want to explore is volunteering for a cause or organization you care about. You'll meet others who share some of your deepest values, and it can get you experience and lead to opportunities to work for pay on things you care about with people that you like. No guarantees, of course, but it can at least be fulfilling in ways that ordinary mercenary work isn't.
orasis 5y ago
Forget the money. Focus on serving others and it will transform you.
ibdf 5y ago
I’m almost 40 and I’ve never held a job for more than 4 years. They were good jobs too, but after a while I get tired of it or bored and I need to find something else. I know tons of people that “found their passion” and knew exactly what they wanted to do when they were in school. I never had a passion for anything… I need to constantly change what I am doing. The only difference is that I stuck to the same industry, that way I can build experience and so the next job is a bit better. If the job is not fun, try finding a hobby that is!
- WalterBright 5y ago
  In software, you're never doing the same thing twice.
  - softbuilder 5y ago
    Yeah, but it rhymes.
  - justshowpost 5y ago
    That's not true, web developers are doing their functions.php over and over and over.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      The whole point of software is to automate what was done manually before. If web developers are doing the same thing over and over, perhaps they're not actually programmers.
ghufran_syed 5y ago
I took a long time figuring out what I wanted to do, and I found the following books useful: “What color is your parachute?” by richard bolles “What should I do with my life?” by Po Bronson (who also had trouble deciding what he wanted to do…) “The seven habits of highly effective people” by Steven Covey - the title made me cringe but a friend recommended it to me and I found it very useful YMMV
adnmcq999 5y ago
Yeah I’m 32 and have had no job for more than 2 years. There are a lot of reasons for my situation. I’ve changed some aspects of myself I hope, but I don’t think I can really get a foot in the door to something I want at this point unless I catch a lucky break or make some luck of my own.
AlexTWithBeard 5y ago
> It's like I work for a bit and I'll get to a point where I just want to quit and be done with it. Or there are conditions I just don't want to put up with anymore so I just walk. At 23 my first child was born. Walking away from the job is still possible, but takes so much preparation that it's often easier just to but the bullet and keep going.
SamWhited 5y ago
I've got the opposite experience from a lot of people on this thread: I've hated every dev job I've ever had for the last 10 years or so (I'm also 30) and have recently started working retail (which is fine, I can't pay the bills with it, but I don't hate my life every morning at least) while I try to figure out how I can stop working for terrible tech companies that just build garbage as quickly as possible no matter how much they screw over the users doing it. Unfortunately, most of the tech I've worked on that I think could actually help people also doesn't pay the bills. I haven't come out the other side, so I can't help you there, but you're not alone. Lots of people change careers after a few years. It's going to be hard, but I'm sure we'll figure it out.
- sector777 5y ago
  I've worked as a software developer for smaller non-software companies (manufacturing more recently). I make half of what FAANG pays (still well compensated though) and I used to feel bad about it. But recently I've started to think that maybe not unravelling the fabric of society is worth something? My customers (machine operators) are right outside my door. I can cut the time it takes to process a production order, the code ships by the end of the week, and I can go out on the floor and get feedback whenever I want. I generally only work on stuff that improves the primary business of the company, so there's very little "garbage" being built.
  - theonething 5y ago
    If you don't mind sharing, how do you go about finding these kinds of jobs?
    - sector777 5y ago
      MSPs (managed service provider, basically outsourced IT) are a great source of leads, and they often have customers in widely different sectors. They seem to get a constant trickle of software development work. Maybe one out of ten of these could turn into something big. MSPs will want 33%-50% of total for finding the lead so be up front about how long you pay them that finders fee (first $X thousand). Eventually that small project could turn into something full time. So pre-covid, you could go to Spiceworks (or similar) meetups, not sure best way to reach out to them now.
larrywright 5y ago
I see others recommending books, so I’ll throw one out there too: So Good They Can’t Ignore You, by Cal Newport. He has a great perspective on how “finding your passion” is probably not what will make you happy (or successful). Another tip: take stock of your mental health, and if you can afford it talk to a professional. It’s possible you have ADHD, depression, or something else, which could be holding you back. Or maybe you have none of those, but they can help you identify why you feel the way you do. Best of luck, and be sure to come back and update us on how things are going.
- ryan-allen 5y ago
  OP's story sounds a bit like my grandfathers, he jumped around many jobs over his lifetime. According to my aunt he would 'work in a job and learn about it until he got bored, then moved on to something else he was vaguely interested in'. I suspected he might have had ADHD, and I certainly do have ADHD, and ADHD is hereditary! If I didn't accidentally fall into software I probably would have been the same. I agree with your idea that they should talk to a professional (ideally psychiatrist in my opinion) and check for any conditions.
fny 5y ago
Maybe you're a person who works to live? If so, embrace it. Those who enjoy their work are often the opposite: they live to work. You could try tech or any number of other jobs (EMT always sounded fun to me.) But your goal should be to find something that you can tolerate, clock out, and lets you live your life. Stop putting "fulfilling work" and "career" on a pedestal and have fun.
- viciousplant 5y ago
  kudos for this.
  - exikyut 5y ago
    > Maybe you're a person who works to live? If so, embrace it. > Those who enjoy their work are often the opposite: they live to work. Huh. Squinting at this from exactly the right angle, that can kinda read the very idea of living to work is paradoxically catastrophic, at once fulfilling and shallow and existentially meaningless. As though work-life balance were interpreted backwards, or something. I've obviously been looking at "do what you love" positively for a while now, but now I really wonder... maybe working to live, and enjoying what you do just a little bit, but not completely, is the ideal balance. Hmm. Now I realize that not being entirely consumed by work and finding identity in that loss of self also has the benefit of making emotional and mental job flexibility easier - and in tech, that's a necessity.
- schwartzworld 5y ago
  Emt is a hard and thankless job with super low pay. It's really a shame
  - reducesuffering 5y ago
    Ya, unfortunately it's a supply and demand issue. Lot's of people use it temporarily for patient-care hours to segue into a type of medical school or career. So pay isn't of concern to most of them.
potatoman2 5y ago
I was 30 years old when I got an entry level call center job in a software company. 10 years later I'm on the development team and finishing my degree. Hang in there 30 is the new 20.
SMAAART 5y ago
At age 28 I moved cross country, away from the toxic environment where I grew up, I had a high school degree and my work experiences were limited to blue collar work/clerk. I got a crappy entry-level job in an office, enrolled in college part-time, I was making $ 18,100/year at my full-time job, I was paying $500/month in rent, $150/month for a crappy car, and $550/per each college class. I did not qualify for student loans since I was making too much money. So I took a part-time job, on top of my full time job, so that I could go to school at night 3 times a week. It took me 8 years to graduate with my BS in Business (minor in CS), I went on for my MBA... to make a long story short it all paid off, I became a VP and develop a career mixed between being an executive and being an entrepreneur. Chances are that my "recipe" won't work out for you, the common thread between my stories and other stories that I have heard is: * work hard * make your own mistakes (I have made a few, I didn't list them above) * iterate fast * when failing, pick up the pieces and continue Not all that wanders are lost. You could try the entrepreneurship route. Also, read: The War on Art (by Steven Pressfield)
- allcentury 5y ago
  Are you in a technical role? I'm a business major, been an backend engineer and now manager and debating between a MS in CS and an MBA.
brailsafe 5y ago
I'm in this situation at 29 and anticipating 30, but haven't come out the other side. Have quit 2/7 so far, and been terminated from 5 programming related ones. It's extremely difficult to figure out what path to take, but my experience is similar to yours in so much as you describe it. I've now been out of work for over a year, which has happened almost 3 times in my first decade of work, and nothing seems to be looking up.
tdy721 5y ago
33 years old. I have the degree. I went to grad school too. I have ten years of being a web developer. Last summer I worked at Sonic again; Carhopping! You’re not the only one feeling it. :) stay happy
- acover 5y ago
  What led to you working at Sonic?
  - tdy721 5y ago
    It’s the place that offered me a job first. Need of money, I had an infant at the time
poorjohnmacafee 5y ago
Have you tried creating a business? People forget this is the most opportunity-filled, complex economy in the history of humanity. The idea of "spend your career at corporations" is only about 100 years old as a result of the industrial rev. Forget it about it for a second. My grandfather launched a company in his youth and it was considered normal, he wasn't considered an "entrepreneur", he was just doing what many people did before today's career-at-corporations mentality became entrenched. You already know quite a bit about a wide array of industries. Spend some months focusing on your past experiences and where there might be a place for you to break in offering a product or service.
- ornornor 5y ago
  This advice often comes up, and I’m sorta in the same boat as OP (the difference being that I’ve written software for the last ten years but never stayed longer than 18 months at a place for similar feelings OP has) I’ve often considered entrepreneurship but always felt this wasn’t right either. Making any amount of money (let alone enough to replace your day job) is a multi year adventure of very long hours. And even then it has a very high chance of failing. So it’s a huge investment for several years with very little chance of any payoff. You’re almost always better off working for someone else money wise and across the board (unless you’re both skilled and lucky, which means well above average, which by definition excludes at least half of people) What I’m doing now is working at an easy but mind numbingly boring job where the software quality is abysmal. It’s a tough change because I was used to startups with decent standards (unit testing, code reviews…) but it freed me to let go. I don’t care at all about the product. I don’t care if it succeeds or not (it never should but because our customers are captive vis regulations they have to keep buying from us) I negotiated to be paid well enough (mostly based on my previous experience at better companies and the knowledge I got from it) which helps some. And I put in my 40h (I always refuse overtime), take the paycheck, save 70% of it. Working from home has been awesome because I can limit work to a few hours a day before I go mad and still not lose the rest of the time I’d normally be stuck at the office without much to do (poor planning on my betters’ part). This lets me see the end of the tunnel ins few years where I’ll be able to quit working if I want to (and I’m pretty sure I’ll want to), 30–40 years earlier than most. All this to say that if you can write software but don’t feel like starting your own company then this could be a valid option too. And you don’t even have to play the corporate game because you’re only in it for 10 years so don’t really care about promotions etc. Where I work managers are paid 20% more (before tax!) than individual contributors but they get 10x the headaches and longer hours. No thanks.
akomtu 5y ago
What if people with experience taught such newbies and used their network to pull them onboard in exchange for 15% of the newbie's paychecks for the first 5 years, enforced by a valid contract? There's clear benefit to all parties and this idea doesn't openly violate the law, although I admit it has a shady smell (a smell of good business?)
- indigodaddy 5y ago
  What you said was perfect except for everything after “onboard.” Let’s help each other out if we can and not want to get anything in return for it.
  - akomtu 5y ago
    Your perfect plan is going to work only for perfect people.
justshowpost 5y ago
Oilfield at least gives a satisfactory money. You have to love money, tho.
poopsmithe 5y ago
I'm 34 and I only figured out what I want to do with my life at the end of 2019. I dropped out of high school in 2005 and I worked in food service for a couple years. Then I worked at a summer job installing home security systems. After that, I was offered a job at my family's small business running errands, shipping & receiving, and IT duties. I figured I'd work there for a couple years then transition into what I actually wanted to do-- software development. I ended up working there 10 years and in that time I became miserable. It was never my choice to work there long term, but it was comfy and the pay was good so I stayed. I felt babied and rarely challenged in my duties because I was the bosses son. I developed a co-dependency that left me indecisive and without boundaries. I didn't make my own choices, I would ignore whatever decisions and I had until my dad made them for me. I quit that job thinking that any other job in the world would fix my problems. I worked at a gun holster manufacturing company, a company that stocks beer on shelves at grocery stores, an automotive parts delivery company, a packaged food plant, an airport, and two other offices doing IT work. Each time, I would flake and quit between 1 day and 3 months. I got to the point where I was so ashamed of myself, my lack of commitment and grit, that I wanted to take my own life. I did what was really hard at the time and I sought therapy. I had a rough time at the health clinic when I told them about my suicidal thoughts... It felt like the whole place went into lockdown because I didn't explain myself properly and they seemed to think that I was about to kill myself right then and there... Anyway, It's been almost 2 years of weekly therapy calls, group therapy, attending two different codependency support groups, and discovering my spirituality and who I want to be. The whole time I was skipping between jobs what I realized I was doing was I was taking whatever shit job was available, even though my desire to do that job was zero. I would smile and tell the boss that I wanted to work there, but that was just me lying to them and to myself. What broke that cycle was lots of long walks and me getting to the point where I decided that I was going to land my dream job, or die. I know now that that's not the healthiest way to look at the situation, but that's how it started out. On my long walks, I thought about what I liked doing and what I would do if I didn't have to work. I figured out that I didn't want to work. I didn't want a job, I didn't want a career. I wanted a lifestyle. These days, I'm selling things on eBay. I mainly buy bulk exclusive Japanese goods from shipping forwarders, photograph and resell them to the US market. It's a lot of work, I work too much, but for the first time I feel like I'm in charge of my life, and I'm doing something that I chose. I'm struggling to pay my rent every month, but I'm happy and I see opportunity for growth every day. I'm building a website on the side, putting my other skills to good use. Something to help me and help my customers track their trading card collections and find cards that they are looking for. I like to think of what I do as, "Software development with a merchandise business model" and that really works for me. It's the exact lifestyle that I have been looking for! ktnxbai
thenext10years 5y ago
Dear @holycrapguys, There are 101 things that you can try but there is one thing you must do..is to keep trying.
dboreham 5y ago
Just to note that 30 isn't very old (although it might not seem that way at the time). Most people are only just starting to get into their stride, if they were lucky and got through education in the minimum time and landed a career path job immediately.
pjgalbraith 5y ago
Life is long. I remember when I was finishing primary school there was a lot of emphasis at the time on figuring out what you were going to do career wise. At the time I lived near an old blacksmith I used to visit regularly, he looked exactly how you would imagine a blacksmith to look, long grey beard, always covered in ash, a quietly spoken Vietnam war veteran, he had an awesome studio forge where he worked on commissions. Anyway I remember he said not to worry about it too much he didn't work out what he wanted to do until he was almost 60 year old. A number of years later one of the developers I worked with had many careers before working as a programmer, he cleaned power plant reactors, lived in Africa as an aid-worked, before eventually settling down and learning to code at around 50 years old. He was a fantastic developer because of his life experience not in spite of it, and moreover a great team member because he could provide some much needed perspective.
indigodaddy 5y ago
I also posted this under another comment, but I feel it has value on its own. —- Perhaps check out this thread. Might give you ideas and/or inspiration. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24670746 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24670746 If you are interested in tech, but want to go a more Linux/sysadmin route vs programming, then there are definitely avenues to get a foot in the tech door that don’t require a degree, or really necessarily, any certs either. You do kinda have to really want it and love it more than the average other person though. A datacenter or hosting NOC (*nix oriented if at all possible; most NOC tech roles will be heavily Linux) Technician can be a fairly easy in, and has the potential to take you down a good career path. The great part about this particular entry level (usually) role, vs some other entry level IT role, is that you will learn a broad swath of internet/networking/linux/DNS/hosting/ security fundamentals that can easily jumpstart you into whatever specific tech path that you discover that you are most interested. After some experience and finding that out, you can then more fine-tune what your next job/role/tech path will/should be and look like. Good luck and I wish you the very best! Stay positive and interested and it’s going to be fine!
evilotto 5y ago
Obnoxious but serious question: are you living in your parents' house? If not, move along, nothing to see here. (read the other comments about getting professional help, therapy, etc). If you are, consider if you're just being complacent because you can be. Make a goal for yourself to move out within 6 months. Figure out what you need to do to live on your own, without free room and board to fall back on. And then stick to it. Don't get me wrong, living in a rent-free or otherwise low-cost situation can be really beneficial, especially if you're paying off debt or saving for your own place. But it can also be a crutch that you lean on and prevents you from figuring out what you are going to do with your life. Otherwise, create for yourself conditions where you can't be slothful. If you're in the US, walk one of the 3 Great Hikes. Travel through Europe (next year maybe). Join the Peace Corps. Get a volunteer job on an educational ship (e.g, the Lady Washington). These might be "dangerous", but don't underestimate the danger of being depressed at home. Don't think that a job in tech will be any different from the others. At the end of the day it's still a job that you may like or not.
- readflaggedcomm 5y ago
  What if he were, and was taking care of them? We should all be so lucky.
  - pyuser583 5y ago
    That’s the sort of thing that drastically impacts and all career advice OP might receive. If it’s the case, OP needs to mention it.
- holycrapguys 5y ago
  No worries not an obnoxious question, I've been on my own since 18 and have done a fair amount of international travel and lot's of hiking. I'm from Montana/Colorado currently in Texas.
- orangea 5y ago
  "Great Hikes"?
erosenbe0 5y ago
You are in a perfect position to launch a career having gathered so much data. Do you like working with people? Teams? Working in the field? Getting dirty? Do you like working with things and machines? Troubleshooting? Teaching? Writing? Self-learning or prefer training and certification? Danger or safety? Commission or salary? A lot of careerless folks would covet knowing as much as you probably know about yourself, given all the things you've dabbled in.
yuppie_scum 5y ago
Fake it til you make it
bufferoverflow 5y ago
Construction is insanely hot right now. I hear building companies are booked 12 to 18 months in the future. Which likely means you can sell your skills at really good rates.
busterarm 5y ago
> Or there are conditions I just don't want to put up with anymore so I just walk. Tech isn't any easier here. In fact, I would say the main marker of success is the ability to resist flipping the table. It's a constant battle and is actually a muscle that you develop.
- bsg75 5y ago
  > I would say the main marker of success is the ability to resist flipping the table. That is a very important point, and one easily overlooked.
  - jart 5y ago
    If you have a seat. For the rest of us, sometimes the only way to get a seat at the table is to try and flip the table over.
jimjam1 5y ago
Hey, Was a similar situation, i committed to a career and committed to it, started at the bottom in 2013, and as of 2020, made director with 2 levels of managers. Definitely some luck involved here. i hated work, became disinterested quickly - and had spend 9 years in 7 different jobs - software(2), finance (3), non-profit (1), consulting (1). There is no happy job - because it requires great pay, boss, co-workers, company and family. At that point, i decided that i was smart enough to find a new career, and wanted to move to a place that has the most number of the jobs and paid the most in the career i wanted. i changed my goal to making enough money to retire quickly. i recognized that i am living a dopamine fueled life - going from one hit to another (in all my jobs i was given the toughest projects and i was able to pull it off) - while it can be a strength, the dependence is the problem. From your background - 1. You are quick at learning 2. Have confidence to take risk Going forward, identify the main goal that you really care about and focus, finding a new job/career is a by-product. Now, you also must recognize that spending years in a single career and field gets you pay growth. That new career/jobs, which is likely to be a function of the past skills / careers/ jobs, needs to be lucrative, and has great prospects. Talk to people who are already there and find out if it is worthwhile investing 10 years into. And then commit. Learn how to sell your past career as a strength - lots of jobs looking for people who want a "new challenge" or a "change". You will do well because you have the strengths that are likely to make you successful. Along the way you are likely to make connections and make new friends. Lots of comments asking you to join tech in some capacity - not a bad idea at all. More important is to commit. Hav known many folks who started learning development and ended up six figure base salaries.
onecommentman 5y ago
One idea might be to identify what are the biggest challenges that your generation must address. Big, long-term zeitgeisty problems that you (not the media) believe are most important and can be addressed meaningfully in your lifetime. No more than the three biggest. For Boomers it might have been something like prevent WWIII, normalize race relations and the whole computing/communications revolution. Maybe for your generation it could be managing the East/West rebalancing to the benefit of all, reigniting the idea of universal human rights and their meaningful enforcement, reducing air pollution in Asia and saving millions of lives a year, universal basic income that actually works, eliminating global slavery, eliminating global malnutrition, redefining what aging means in the 21st C and beyond, figuring out how to develop AI for the benefit of all *Big* global ideas that are 50+ year projects. Then find your niche in chipping away, either actively or passively, at one or more of the three. Until any problem is solved, you’ll always have a mission and a meaning and a group of like-minded folks to hang with. That counts for a whole lot in life. If the problem isn’t some media fantasy and is actually worth your life’s dedication, the money (at least enough money) will come.
ramtatatam 5y ago
My sister, age 31, recently started to work in tech with no prior experience in what she does now. It's doable however - like with everything, you will have to progress through pay grades until you get satisfying pay. She likes what she does now because it relates a bit to what she was doing before. Should not be that difficult in your situation, you have seen so many places, certainly you have lots of valuable experience and insights. These can pay off greatly if you find a tech startup solving a problem close to one of your experiences.
shytey 5y ago
I can't seem to reply to it but I second poorjohnmacafee's comment about creating a business. I was in a similar place to you 6 years ago, it never really clicked for me in a regular job. I started my own small business in the vein of Max Maher/Rohan Gilkes/Sweaty Startup (moving service/house cleaning etc. ). I knew nothing about the industry I chose and worked on average about 25 hours a week. The competition is weak as the brightest/best are all (generally) in coding/tech/law/finance. Plenty of options out there to start something low risk and cheap. It just clicked for me, I've really enjoyed the process and I genuinely did struggle at every job I ever held. It can be tough but the rewards are great if you are suited to running a business.
- holycrapguys 5y ago
  Hey there, what kind of business did you start if you don't mind me asking?
just_enjoy 5y ago
Unless you have a passion and you know it, you will always be lost. Keep looking for it and enjoy life in the process. There is always the chance that you do not even have one and you prefer chilling with mates at a beach. At the age of 30 I moved to another country without speaking the language and without any degree or certificate. At this point I had worked in more than 15 different jobs, sales, promotion, tourism, waiter, Quality assistent in a laboratory, logistics, office worker etc and had quit my studies as a Civil Engineer. 6 modules before my degree. In the new country I worked for the first two years in warehouses and factories without getting any qualification. Learned as much as I could the language and after those two years I started learning in a 6 months distance learning program how to make websites. I saw for the first time in my life what is html, css, javascript etc. Before that the only thing I would do with my computer was watch movies and play games. After 6 months I finished this course and started at another school learning more about developing. Java, SQL etc. It took me another two years to finish and at the age of 35 I landed my first job as Backend developer. Right now I am 37 and a junior backend developer. At the same time I grew interest about blockchain technology and now I am being part of the IOHK (Cardano) pioneer program for Plutus platform and want to learn how to make smart contracts. I feel lost too. I like everything and get bored by everything. On one hand I am looking for stability, on the other hand I am really bored by doing the same thing all the time. This summer, during my vacations and while doing the IOHK program, I will decide if I want to change again and move into blockchain jobs. If I take this step it means that at the age of 38 I will be a junior developer in smart contracts. Will this be my final step? Will this become my passion? Maybe. Maybe not. Relax and do what interests you and makes you happy until it doesn't. Then move on.
ryan-allen 5y ago
Being content is hard, but no joy? Surely there's been fleeting moments of joy here and there (or perhaps for a period of time during a role then it's gone?). What were they? If not, was there any joy out of work?
MasterYoda 5y ago
This video may not be much of a help, but... I think is worth some reflections and it is something to many "forgets" / never sees. "What If Money Was No Object?" /Alan Watts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khOaAHK7efc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khOaAHK7efc
RalfWausE 5y ago
Been there... went to the military, after that i loved ANY job that not involved getting shot at by the "other guys" and shat at by anyone higher ranking than me.
zeroego 5y ago
I see ADHD mentioned a lot on HN, so I hesitate to suggest that you be screened for it. One thing I will say is I'm the same age and have quit a comparable amount of jobs in my life. When I finally did get screened the doc said this was fairly common among people with ADHD. Variety and a certain amount of autonomy is really important for me in order to be content at a job for longer than a year. Not trying to diagnose you off a single post, but just food for thought. Best of luck to you.
slowhand09 5y ago
I received this idea from my crossfit coach from years gone by. Strive to be 1% better today, at something, anything, or everything. A journey doing this regularly will enrich your life. Sort of like teaching a child to read, and encouraging them to read. 10 minutes a day... is 3650 minutes a year. Increments add up, skills progress. If you're not great at something, become above average at everything. Grow your life.
cowvin 5y ago
Most jobs aren't particularly lovable. That's why they pay you to do the work, right? Your expectations around work may be a little unrealistic. Ultimately, you work to earn money. The thing is, because of supply and demand, you get paid more for work that is either undesirable or requires rare skills (or both). Note that rare skills may be acquired through training or schooling, so if you have a rare skill you're interested in acquiring, you should go for it. The trade you were apprenticing in sounds like it would have led to a career. It sounds like you quit, though?
sethammons 5y ago
I was mostly a tech hobbyists until 27 when I got my first real programming role. I was a photographer assistant, a graphic designer, an insurance salesman, an investment advisor, a construction worker, and a high school math teacher all before I was a software developer.
giardini 5y ago
Apply for a job in the local municipality (city) and county governments. Both these entities typically have thousands of jobs, no two the same, requiring a wild variety of skills. I assure you there will be position(s) that they will hire you into. Pay is usually slightly lower than similar non-government work. On the other hand, most local and county governments have decent pension systems and good benefits, so tap into those as much as possible. And they won't ask you to do anything dangerous: civil governments are very risk-averse about their employees. Once you have a steady job, look into broadening your education. It could be as simple as learning conversational Spanish or as complex as pursuing a Masters' degree in Computer Science. Again, most governmental jobs encourage their employees to pursue further education, in some cases going so far as to allow class and travel time to count as work hours. If you get another degree then it is then your choice whether you choose to advance within the system or go outside.
pengwing 5y ago
Do you have insight into details, problems and current solutions in those 20 industries? I'm looking for validated B2B business ideas, e.g., companies in industry _ share problem _, this can be solved by software solution _, early adopters will be _, personal introduction can be made to _ .

121 points by holycrapguys 5y ago

FaisalAbid 5y ago

What brings you to Hacker News? Are you looking to get into development?

holycrapguys 5y ago
I enjoy the discussions here (for the most part) more than the other social media options. I've done some courses in data analysis, as well as python. I usually lose steam after self teaching after a few months though. I've found it hard to break in without a degree.
- jey 5y ago
  > I've found it hard to break in without a degree. You don't need a degree if you have substantial projects and put them on your resume. Your resume just needs to convey that you have actually done significant programming work and that you're good at it. If you don't yet have a portfolio of projects, you can start building it now.
  - polishdude20 5y ago
    Yep this. It will take a while to make some projects that you'll be happy to display publicly but this is the cheapest route to go.
    - temp234 5y ago
      The longer I am around the more I realize that pretty much every knowledge worker field or creative field is just about having a rocking public portfolio and passing the van/line/airport test: "Would you want to be stuck in a van/line/airport with this person? Are they respectful and nice?" You can break into a surprising number of industries with time, a good heart, and work samples.
  - curmudgeon22 5y ago
    One option that could help with projects are udemy or similar courses. I've done a couple courses centered around a project, like this one: https://www.udemy.com/course/the-complete-react-native-and-redux-course/learn/lecture/15707554?start=0#overview https://www.udemy.com/course/the-complete-react-native-and-r... You'd probably want to personalize/customize the projects, but could be a good starting point.
- maximus-decimus 5y ago
  It might be different if you actually had a job and the whole thing was a bit more concrete... but if you don't like self-learning in general, I would highly recommend against becoming a programmer. Everything changes all the time and you have to constantly learn new technologies. On the flip side, this makes it harder to get bored since you're always learning something new.
- indigodaddy 5y ago
  Perhaps check out this thread. Might give you ideas and/or inspiration. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24670746 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24670746 If you are interested in tech, but want to go a more Linux/sysadmin route vs programming, then there are definitely avenues to get a foot in the tech door that don’t require a degree, or really necessarily, any certs either. You do kinda have to really want it and love it more than the average other person though. A datacenter or hosting NOC (*nix oriented if at all possible; most NOC tech roles will be heavily Linux) Technician can be a fairly easy in, and has the potential to take you down a good career path. The great part about this particular entry level (usually) role, vs some other entry level IT role, is that you will learn a broad swath of internet/networking/linux/DNS/hosting/ security fundamentals that can easily jumpstart you into whatever specific tech path that you discover that you are most interested. After some experience and finding that out, you can then more fine-tune what your next job/role/tech path will/should be and look like. Good luck and I wish you the very best! Stay positive and interested and it’s going to be fine!

schwartzworld 5y ago

Yes, I was very much in your shoes. I was 29 and had only ever waited tables or worked retail. I had no skills that paid and I never finished college. I ended up going to massage therapy school, and I worked doing that for 6 years. During that time I began learning web development, mostly as a way to pass the time on slow work days. As I got better at development I got to a point where I could realistically see it as a career. I began to focus on frontend development because I liked that I could work without dependencies, any computer with a web browser is good enough. Massage is physical work and eventually I got tired of it. my second daughter was on the way and I wasn't going to be able to really make any more as an MT without starting my own business, which I wasn't interested in doing. I got serious about searching for dev work and eventually found something. As a bonus, the 4 years of self study prepared me very well, and i actually enjoy the work. You'd have to to spend 4 years studying.

tyronehed 5y ago

Started my first programming job at age 35. No experience. Now, 24 years later, I am doing great. It's never too late.

francislata 5y ago

When it comes to the feeling of laziness, maybe having a mentor or a friend keeping you accountable might help in some way? Even if you tried it once and given up on it, maybe this time around it will turn out to be awesome for you.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

sinac 5y ago

If you haven’t already, try reading Mastery by George Leonard. Some of his examples / narrative choices are dated but if you can look past that it’s got great insights. It’s a piece of the puzzle but can provide some orientation.

holycrapguys 5y ago
Never heard of it I'll put it on my list.

curmudgeon22 5y ago

Yeah, I went through similar, interspersed with small bouts of university and some travel. Until my late 20's, I worked in construction, kitchens, call centers, hotels, saw mills and more. I wouldn't worry about the 'laziness' bit, I think most people are like that and it sounds like you've provided for yourself. I ended up getting a 2 year diploma in computer science (BCIT if it's relevant to you. I was happy with the program, but some folks didn't have as good of results). For a long time, no jobs etc.. really stuck, nor did university the first time I tried. A 2 year program was good, because it didn't require as long of a time commitment to get something out of it. This one also had the option to do another 2 years (either right away or later) to finish the degree. I'm in my second job since school now. I've never found something where I feel "joy" at work, but I'm very happy with the most recent one. Most jobs are annoying a lot of the time I think. Money and future prospects are much better than my random jobs earlier in life. I changed cities when I went to school even though I could have found similar programs in my home town. The change of scenery was helpful I think. I guess I have 3 main takeaways: - I don't think you need to feel like something is a perfect fit/joy. Good enough is OK. - Don't worry about having "wasted" years. I think life experience counts for a lot and a diverse background can be a strength. - I never did in my late 20's or early 30's, but I think about retirement money a lot more now. People how started careers earlier and were smart with their $ have a big advantage over latercomers.

plow-tycoon 5y ago
I've worked with at least 3 people in the lower mainland who did that program at BCIT and would be in your age range. I wonder if we're former colleagues.

dwaltrip 5y ago

Do you have stability and harmony in your life outside of work? Any shit from your past that is brewing underneath the surface?

joe_momma 5y ago

You have to be driven and use all the free resources you can because there is some kid out there who is and will get the job. You want to break in, learn mobile programming. Projects and demands still allow newbies off the street to make it. The web is easy but really confusing if you haven't paid attention the past decade. Mobile apps always have something new to fiddle with. Good luck.

abootstrapper 5y ago

I worked a programming job out of college for 4 years. Then I quit and did some of this and that for 14 years. Just got my 2nd full time programming job at 40 years old. I’m sharing this to let you know it’s possible and you’re still young.

zrail 5y ago

One thing to try is talking to a therapist about all this. There are a number of conditions that can lead someone to a life like yours, most of which can be managed with some coping skills.

adnmcq999 5y ago
Therapist might help. Ppl have told me to do that, and I guess I’ve technically been once or twice a long time ago before I could make the decision myself BUT… I don’t think there is necessarily anything wrong with OP for feeing this. There’s a reason why Office Space is popular. I sometimes think there’s something wrong with the people I know who like their bullshit jobs or take their work seriously. Either deluded or really good at acting.
- larrywright 5y ago
  Don’t underestimate the power of changing the way you look at things in your life, which a therapist can help with.
- sarajevo 5y ago
  A different perspective always helps. I know someone who had issues focusing and deferring gratification, she’s doing better now. I am not diagnosing and this is just a random example where therapy helped... bTW, my dad retired without knowing what he “really” wanted to do...
holycrapguys 5y ago
I'm open to it. Do you do it? Can you give me an example or recommendation? Where I get hung up on therapy is that there's 100 different types. And it's an expensive endeavor to have so much leeway.
- maaneeack 5y ago
  If you have insurance and a primary care doctor, ask them for a referral. If not, you don't need someone with a specialization to start, find a "therapist". There's that talkspace online option as well.

pmoriarty 5y ago

One thing you might want to explore is volunteering for a cause or organization you care about. You'll meet others who share some of your deepest values, and it can get you experience and lead to opportunities to work for pay on things you care about with people that you like. No guarantees, of course, but it can at least be fulfilling in ways that ordinary mercenary work isn't.

orasis 5y ago

Forget the money. Focus on serving others and it will transform you.

ibdf 5y ago

I’m almost 40 and I’ve never held a job for more than 4 years. They were good jobs too, but after a while I get tired of it or bored and I need to find something else. I know tons of people that “found their passion” and knew exactly what they wanted to do when they were in school. I never had a passion for anything… I need to constantly change what I am doing. The only difference is that I stuck to the same industry, that way I can build experience and so the next job is a bit better. If the job is not fun, try finding a hobby that is!

WalterBright 5y ago
In software, you're never doing the same thing twice.
- softbuilder 5y ago
  Yeah, but it rhymes.
- justshowpost 5y ago
  That's not true, web developers are doing their functions.php over and over and over.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    The whole point of software is to automate what was done manually before. If web developers are doing the same thing over and over, perhaps they're not actually programmers.

ghufran_syed 5y ago

I took a long time figuring out what I wanted to do, and I found the following books useful: “What color is your parachute?” by richard bolles “What should I do with my life?” by Po Bronson (who also had trouble deciding what he wanted to do…) “The seven habits of highly effective people” by Steven Covey - the title made me cringe but a friend recommended it to me and I found it very useful YMMV

adnmcq999 5y ago

Yeah I’m 32 and have had no job for more than 2 years. There are a lot of reasons for my situation. I’ve changed some aspects of myself I hope, but I don’t think I can really get a foot in the door to something I want at this point unless I catch a lucky break or make some luck of my own.

AlexTWithBeard 5y ago

> It's like I work for a bit and I'll get to a point where I just want to quit and be done with it. Or there are conditions I just don't want to put up with anymore so I just walk. At 23 my first child was born. Walking away from the job is still possible, but takes so much preparation that it's often easier just to but the bullet and keep going.

SamWhited 5y ago

I've got the opposite experience from a lot of people on this thread: I've hated every dev job I've ever had for the last 10 years or so (I'm also 30) and have recently started working retail (which is fine, I can't pay the bills with it, but I don't hate my life every morning at least) while I try to figure out how I can stop working for terrible tech companies that just build garbage as quickly as possible no matter how much they screw over the users doing it. Unfortunately, most of the tech I've worked on that I think could actually help people also doesn't pay the bills. I haven't come out the other side, so I can't help you there, but you're not alone. Lots of people change careers after a few years. It's going to be hard, but I'm sure we'll figure it out.

sector777 5y ago
I've worked as a software developer for smaller non-software companies (manufacturing more recently). I make half of what FAANG pays (still well compensated though) and I used to feel bad about it. But recently I've started to think that maybe not unravelling the fabric of society is worth something? My customers (machine operators) are right outside my door. I can cut the time it takes to process a production order, the code ships by the end of the week, and I can go out on the floor and get feedback whenever I want. I generally only work on stuff that improves the primary business of the company, so there's very little "garbage" being built.
- theonething 5y ago
  If you don't mind sharing, how do you go about finding these kinds of jobs?
  - sector777 5y ago
    MSPs (managed service provider, basically outsourced IT) are a great source of leads, and they often have customers in widely different sectors. They seem to get a constant trickle of software development work. Maybe one out of ten of these could turn into something big. MSPs will want 33%-50% of total for finding the lead so be up front about how long you pay them that finders fee (first $X thousand). Eventually that small project could turn into something full time. So pre-covid, you could go to Spiceworks (or similar) meetups, not sure best way to reach out to them now.

larrywright 5y ago

I see others recommending books, so I’ll throw one out there too: So Good They Can’t Ignore You, by Cal Newport. He has a great perspective on how “finding your passion” is probably not what will make you happy (or successful). Another tip: take stock of your mental health, and if you can afford it talk to a professional. It’s possible you have ADHD, depression, or something else, which could be holding you back. Or maybe you have none of those, but they can help you identify why you feel the way you do. Best of luck, and be sure to come back and update us on how things are going.

ryan-allen 5y ago
OP's story sounds a bit like my grandfathers, he jumped around many jobs over his lifetime. According to my aunt he would 'work in a job and learn about it until he got bored, then moved on to something else he was vaguely interested in'. I suspected he might have had ADHD, and I certainly do have ADHD, and ADHD is hereditary! If I didn't accidentally fall into software I probably would have been the same. I agree with your idea that they should talk to a professional (ideally psychiatrist in my opinion) and check for any conditions.

fny 5y ago

Maybe you're a person who works to live? If so, embrace it. Those who enjoy their work are often the opposite: they live to work. You could try tech or any number of other jobs (EMT always sounded fun to me.) But your goal should be to find something that you can tolerate, clock out, and lets you live your life. Stop putting "fulfilling work" and "career" on a pedestal and have fun.

viciousplant 5y ago
kudos for this.
- exikyut 5y ago
  > Maybe you're a person who works to live? If so, embrace it. > Those who enjoy their work are often the opposite: they live to work. Huh. Squinting at this from exactly the right angle, that can kinda read the very idea of living to work is paradoxically catastrophic, at once fulfilling and shallow and existentially meaningless. As though work-life balance were interpreted backwards, or something. I've obviously been looking at "do what you love" positively for a while now, but now I really wonder... maybe working to live, and enjoying what you do just a little bit, but not completely, is the ideal balance. Hmm. Now I realize that not being entirely consumed by work and finding identity in that loss of self also has the benefit of making emotional and mental job flexibility easier - and in tech, that's a necessity.
schwartzworld 5y ago
Emt is a hard and thankless job with super low pay. It's really a shame
- reducesuffering 5y ago
  Ya, unfortunately it's a supply and demand issue. Lot's of people use it temporarily for patient-care hours to segue into a type of medical school or career. So pay isn't of concern to most of them.

potatoman2 5y ago

I was 30 years old when I got an entry level call center job in a software company. 10 years later I'm on the development team and finishing my degree. Hang in there 30 is the new 20.

SMAAART 5y ago

At age 28 I moved cross country, away from the toxic environment where I grew up, I had a high school degree and my work experiences were limited to blue collar work/clerk. I got a crappy entry-level job in an office, enrolled in college part-time, I was making $ 18,100/year at my full-time job, I was paying $500/month in rent, $150/month for a crappy car, and $550/per each college class. I did not qualify for student loans since I was making too much money. So I took a part-time job, on top of my full time job, so that I could go to school at night 3 times a week. It took me 8 years to graduate with my BS in Business (minor in CS), I went on for my MBA... to make a long story short it all paid off, I became a VP and develop a career mixed between being an executive and being an entrepreneur. Chances are that my "recipe" won't work out for you, the common thread between my stories and other stories that I have heard is: * work hard * make your own mistakes (I have made a few, I didn't list them above) * iterate fast * when failing, pick up the pieces and continue Not all that wanders are lost. You could try the entrepreneurship route. Also, read: The War on Art (by Steven Pressfield)

allcentury 5y ago
Are you in a technical role? I'm a business major, been an backend engineer and now manager and debating between a MS in CS and an MBA.

brailsafe 5y ago

I'm in this situation at 29 and anticipating 30, but haven't come out the other side. Have quit 2/7 so far, and been terminated from 5 programming related ones. It's extremely difficult to figure out what path to take, but my experience is similar to yours in so much as you describe it. I've now been out of work for over a year, which has happened almost 3 times in my first decade of work, and nothing seems to be looking up.

tdy721 5y ago

33 years old. I have the degree. I went to grad school too. I have ten years of being a web developer. Last summer I worked at Sonic again; Carhopping! You’re not the only one feeling it. :) stay happy

acover 5y ago
What led to you working at Sonic?
- tdy721 5y ago
  It’s the place that offered me a job first. Need of money, I had an infant at the time

poorjohnmacafee 5y ago

Have you tried creating a business? People forget this is the most opportunity-filled, complex economy in the history of humanity. The idea of "spend your career at corporations" is only about 100 years old as a result of the industrial rev. Forget it about it for a second. My grandfather launched a company in his youth and it was considered normal, he wasn't considered an "entrepreneur", he was just doing what many people did before today's career-at-corporations mentality became entrenched. You already know quite a bit about a wide array of industries. Spend some months focusing on your past experiences and where there might be a place for you to break in offering a product or service.

ornornor 5y ago
This advice often comes up, and I’m sorta in the same boat as OP (the difference being that I’ve written software for the last ten years but never stayed longer than 18 months at a place for similar feelings OP has) I’ve often considered entrepreneurship but always felt this wasn’t right either. Making any amount of money (let alone enough to replace your day job) is a multi year adventure of very long hours. And even then it has a very high chance of failing. So it’s a huge investment for several years with very little chance of any payoff. You’re almost always better off working for someone else money wise and across the board (unless you’re both skilled and lucky, which means well above average, which by definition excludes at least half of people) What I’m doing now is working at an easy but mind numbingly boring job where the software quality is abysmal. It’s a tough change because I was used to startups with decent standards (unit testing, code reviews…) but it freed me to let go. I don’t care at all about the product. I don’t care if it succeeds or not (it never should but because our customers are captive vis regulations they have to keep buying from us) I negotiated to be paid well enough (mostly based on my previous experience at better companies and the knowledge I got from it) which helps some. And I put in my 40h (I always refuse overtime), take the paycheck, save 70% of it. Working from home has been awesome because I can limit work to a few hours a day before I go mad and still not lose the rest of the time I’d normally be stuck at the office without much to do (poor planning on my betters’ part). This lets me see the end of the tunnel ins few years where I’ll be able to quit working if I want to (and I’m pretty sure I’ll want to), 30–40 years earlier than most. All this to say that if you can write software but don’t feel like starting your own company then this could be a valid option too. And you don’t even have to play the corporate game because you’re only in it for 10 years so don’t really care about promotions etc. Where I work managers are paid 20% more (before tax!) than individual contributors but they get 10x the headaches and longer hours. No thanks.

akomtu 5y ago

What if people with experience taught such newbies and used their network to pull them onboard in exchange for 15% of the newbie's paychecks for the first 5 years, enforced by a valid contract? There's clear benefit to all parties and this idea doesn't openly violate the law, although I admit it has a shady smell (a smell of good business?)

indigodaddy 5y ago
What you said was perfect except for everything after “onboard.” Let’s help each other out if we can and not want to get anything in return for it.
- akomtu 5y ago
  Your perfect plan is going to work only for perfect people.

justshowpost 5y ago

Oilfield at least gives a satisfactory money. You have to love money, tho.

poopsmithe 5y ago

I'm 34 and I only figured out what I want to do with my life at the end of 2019. I dropped out of high school in 2005 and I worked in food service for a couple years. Then I worked at a summer job installing home security systems. After that, I was offered a job at my family's small business running errands, shipping & receiving, and IT duties. I figured I'd work there for a couple years then transition into what I actually wanted to do-- software development. I ended up working there 10 years and in that time I became miserable. It was never my choice to work there long term, but it was comfy and the pay was good so I stayed. I felt babied and rarely challenged in my duties because I was the bosses son. I developed a co-dependency that left me indecisive and without boundaries. I didn't make my own choices, I would ignore whatever decisions and I had until my dad made them for me. I quit that job thinking that any other job in the world would fix my problems. I worked at a gun holster manufacturing company, a company that stocks beer on shelves at grocery stores, an automotive parts delivery company, a packaged food plant, an airport, and two other offices doing IT work. Each time, I would flake and quit between 1 day and 3 months. I got to the point where I was so ashamed of myself, my lack of commitment and grit, that I wanted to take my own life. I did what was really hard at the time and I sought therapy. I had a rough time at the health clinic when I told them about my suicidal thoughts... It felt like the whole place went into lockdown because I didn't explain myself properly and they seemed to think that I was about to kill myself right then and there... Anyway, It's been almost 2 years of weekly therapy calls, group therapy, attending two different codependency support groups, and discovering my spirituality and who I want to be. The whole time I was skipping between jobs what I realized I was doing was I was taking whatever shit job was available, even though my desire to do that job was zero. I would smile and tell the boss that I wanted to work there, but that was just me lying to them and to myself. What broke that cycle was lots of long walks and me getting to the point where I decided that I was going to land my dream job, or die. I know now that that's not the healthiest way to look at the situation, but that's how it started out. On my long walks, I thought about what I liked doing and what I would do if I didn't have to work. I figured out that I didn't want to work. I didn't want a job, I didn't want a career. I wanted a lifestyle. These days, I'm selling things on eBay. I mainly buy bulk exclusive Japanese goods from shipping forwarders, photograph and resell them to the US market. It's a lot of work, I work too much, but for the first time I feel like I'm in charge of my life, and I'm doing something that I chose. I'm struggling to pay my rent every month, but I'm happy and I see opportunity for growth every day. I'm building a website on the side, putting my other skills to good use. Something to help me and help my customers track their trading card collections and find cards that they are looking for. I like to think of what I do as, "Software development with a merchandise business model" and that really works for me. It's the exact lifestyle that I have been looking for! ktnxbai

thenext10years 5y ago

Dear @holycrapguys, There are 101 things that you can try but there is one thing you must do..is to keep trying.

dboreham 5y ago

Just to note that 30 isn't very old (although it might not seem that way at the time). Most people are only just starting to get into their stride, if they were lucky and got through education in the minimum time and landed a career path job immediately.

pjgalbraith 5y ago

Life is long. I remember when I was finishing primary school there was a lot of emphasis at the time on figuring out what you were going to do career wise. At the time I lived near an old blacksmith I used to visit regularly, he looked exactly how you would imagine a blacksmith to look, long grey beard, always covered in ash, a quietly spoken Vietnam war veteran, he had an awesome studio forge where he worked on commissions. Anyway I remember he said not to worry about it too much he didn't work out what he wanted to do until he was almost 60 year old. A number of years later one of the developers I worked with had many careers before working as a programmer, he cleaned power plant reactors, lived in Africa as an aid-worked, before eventually settling down and learning to code at around 50 years old. He was a fantastic developer because of his life experience not in spite of it, and moreover a great team member because he could provide some much needed perspective.

indigodaddy 5y ago

I also posted this under another comment, but I feel it has value on its own. —- Perhaps check out this thread. Might give you ideas and/or inspiration. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24670746 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24670746 If you are interested in tech, but want to go a more Linux/sysadmin route vs programming, then there are definitely avenues to get a foot in the tech door that don’t require a degree, or really necessarily, any certs either. You do kinda have to really want it and love it more than the average other person though. A datacenter or hosting NOC (*nix oriented if at all possible; most NOC tech roles will be heavily Linux) Technician can be a fairly easy in, and has the potential to take you down a good career path. The great part about this particular entry level (usually) role, vs some other entry level IT role, is that you will learn a broad swath of internet/networking/linux/DNS/hosting/ security fundamentals that can easily jumpstart you into whatever specific tech path that you discover that you are most interested. After some experience and finding that out, you can then more fine-tune what your next job/role/tech path will/should be and look like. Good luck and I wish you the very best! Stay positive and interested and it’s going to be fine!

evilotto 5y ago

Obnoxious but serious question: are you living in your parents' house? If not, move along, nothing to see here. (read the other comments about getting professional help, therapy, etc). If you are, consider if you're just being complacent because you can be. Make a goal for yourself to move out within 6 months. Figure out what you need to do to live on your own, without free room and board to fall back on. And then stick to it. Don't get me wrong, living in a rent-free or otherwise low-cost situation can be really beneficial, especially if you're paying off debt or saving for your own place. But it can also be a crutch that you lean on and prevents you from figuring out what you are going to do with your life. Otherwise, create for yourself conditions where you can't be slothful. If you're in the US, walk one of the 3 Great Hikes. Travel through Europe (next year maybe). Join the Peace Corps. Get a volunteer job on an educational ship (e.g, the Lady Washington). These might be "dangerous", but don't underestimate the danger of being depressed at home. Don't think that a job in tech will be any different from the others. At the end of the day it's still a job that you may like or not.

readflaggedcomm 5y ago
What if he were, and was taking care of them? We should all be so lucky.
- pyuser583 5y ago
  That’s the sort of thing that drastically impacts and all career advice OP might receive. If it’s the case, OP needs to mention it.
holycrapguys 5y ago
No worries not an obnoxious question, I've been on my own since 18 and have done a fair amount of international travel and lot's of hiking. I'm from Montana/Colorado currently in Texas.
orangea 5y ago
"Great Hikes"?

erosenbe0 5y ago

You are in a perfect position to launch a career having gathered so much data. Do you like working with people? Teams? Working in the field? Getting dirty? Do you like working with things and machines? Troubleshooting? Teaching? Writing? Self-learning or prefer training and certification? Danger or safety? Commission or salary? A lot of careerless folks would covet knowing as much as you probably know about yourself, given all the things you've dabbled in.

yuppie_scum 5y ago

Fake it til you make it

bufferoverflow 5y ago

Construction is insanely hot right now. I hear building companies are booked 12 to 18 months in the future. Which likely means you can sell your skills at really good rates.

busterarm 5y ago

> Or there are conditions I just don't want to put up with anymore so I just walk. Tech isn't any easier here. In fact, I would say the main marker of success is the ability to resist flipping the table. It's a constant battle and is actually a muscle that you develop.

bsg75 5y ago
> I would say the main marker of success is the ability to resist flipping the table. That is a very important point, and one easily overlooked.
- jart 5y ago
  If you have a seat. For the rest of us, sometimes the only way to get a seat at the table is to try and flip the table over.

jimjam1 5y ago

Hey, Was a similar situation, i committed to a career and committed to it, started at the bottom in 2013, and as of 2020, made director with 2 levels of managers. Definitely some luck involved here. i hated work, became disinterested quickly - and had spend 9 years in 7 different jobs - software(2), finance (3), non-profit (1), consulting (1). There is no happy job - because it requires great pay, boss, co-workers, company and family. At that point, i decided that i was smart enough to find a new career, and wanted to move to a place that has the most number of the jobs and paid the most in the career i wanted. i changed my goal to making enough money to retire quickly. i recognized that i am living a dopamine fueled life - going from one hit to another (in all my jobs i was given the toughest projects and i was able to pull it off) - while it can be a strength, the dependence is the problem. From your background - 1. You are quick at learning 2. Have confidence to take risk Going forward, identify the main goal that you really care about and focus, finding a new job/career is a by-product. Now, you also must recognize that spending years in a single career and field gets you pay growth. That new career/jobs, which is likely to be a function of the past skills / careers/ jobs, needs to be lucrative, and has great prospects. Talk to people who are already there and find out if it is worthwhile investing 10 years into. And then commit. Learn how to sell your past career as a strength - lots of jobs looking for people who want a "new challenge" or a "change". You will do well because you have the strengths that are likely to make you successful. Along the way you are likely to make connections and make new friends. Lots of comments asking you to join tech in some capacity - not a bad idea at all. More important is to commit. Hav known many folks who started learning development and ended up six figure base salaries.

onecommentman 5y ago

One idea might be to identify what are the biggest challenges that your generation must address. Big, long-term zeitgeisty problems that you (not the media) believe are most important and can be addressed meaningfully in your lifetime. No more than the three biggest. For Boomers it might have been something like prevent WWIII, normalize race relations and the whole computing/communications revolution. Maybe for your generation it could be managing the East/West rebalancing to the benefit of all, reigniting the idea of universal human rights and their meaningful enforcement, reducing air pollution in Asia and saving millions of lives a year, universal basic income that actually works, eliminating global slavery, eliminating global malnutrition, redefining what aging means in the 21st C and beyond, figuring out how to develop AI for the benefit of all *Big* global ideas that are 50+ year projects. Then find your niche in chipping away, either actively or passively, at one or more of the three. Until any problem is solved, you’ll always have a mission and a meaning and a group of like-minded folks to hang with. That counts for a whole lot in life. If the problem isn’t some media fantasy and is actually worth your life’s dedication, the money (at least enough money) will come.

ramtatatam 5y ago

My sister, age 31, recently started to work in tech with no prior experience in what she does now. It's doable however - like with everything, you will have to progress through pay grades until you get satisfying pay. She likes what she does now because it relates a bit to what she was doing before. Should not be that difficult in your situation, you have seen so many places, certainly you have lots of valuable experience and insights. These can pay off greatly if you find a tech startup solving a problem close to one of your experiences.

shytey 5y ago

I can't seem to reply to it but I second poorjohnmacafee's comment about creating a business. I was in a similar place to you 6 years ago, it never really clicked for me in a regular job. I started my own small business in the vein of Max Maher/Rohan Gilkes/Sweaty Startup (moving service/house cleaning etc. ). I knew nothing about the industry I chose and worked on average about 25 hours a week. The competition is weak as the brightest/best are all (generally) in coding/tech/law/finance. Plenty of options out there to start something low risk and cheap. It just clicked for me, I've really enjoyed the process and I genuinely did struggle at every job I ever held. It can be tough but the rewards are great if you are suited to running a business.

holycrapguys 5y ago
Hey there, what kind of business did you start if you don't mind me asking?

just_enjoy 5y ago

Unless you have a passion and you know it, you will always be lost. Keep looking for it and enjoy life in the process. There is always the chance that you do not even have one and you prefer chilling with mates at a beach. At the age of 30 I moved to another country without speaking the language and without any degree or certificate. At this point I had worked in more than 15 different jobs, sales, promotion, tourism, waiter, Quality assistent in a laboratory, logistics, office worker etc and had quit my studies as a Civil Engineer. 6 modules before my degree. In the new country I worked for the first two years in warehouses and factories without getting any qualification. Learned as much as I could the language and after those two years I started learning in a 6 months distance learning program how to make websites. I saw for the first time in my life what is html, css, javascript etc. Before that the only thing I would do with my computer was watch movies and play games. After 6 months I finished this course and started at another school learning more about developing. Java, SQL etc. It took me another two years to finish and at the age of 35 I landed my first job as Backend developer. Right now I am 37 and a junior backend developer. At the same time I grew interest about blockchain technology and now I am being part of the IOHK (Cardano) pioneer program for Plutus platform and want to learn how to make smart contracts. I feel lost too. I like everything and get bored by everything. On one hand I am looking for stability, on the other hand I am really bored by doing the same thing all the time. This summer, during my vacations and while doing the IOHK program, I will decide if I want to change again and move into blockchain jobs. If I take this step it means that at the age of 38 I will be a junior developer in smart contracts. Will this be my final step? Will this become my passion? Maybe. Maybe not. Relax and do what interests you and makes you happy until it doesn't. Then move on.

ryan-allen 5y ago

Being content is hard, but no joy? Surely there's been fleeting moments of joy here and there (or perhaps for a period of time during a role then it's gone?). What were they? If not, was there any joy out of work?

MasterYoda 5y ago

This video may not be much of a help, but... I think is worth some reflections and it is something to many "forgets" / never sees. "What If Money Was No Object?" /Alan Watts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khOaAHK7efc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khOaAHK7efc

RalfWausE 5y ago

Been there... went to the military, after that i loved ANY job that not involved getting shot at by the "other guys" and shat at by anyone higher ranking than me.

zeroego 5y ago

I see ADHD mentioned a lot on HN, so I hesitate to suggest that you be screened for it. One thing I will say is I'm the same age and have quit a comparable amount of jobs in my life. When I finally did get screened the doc said this was fairly common among people with ADHD. Variety and a certain amount of autonomy is really important for me in order to be content at a job for longer than a year. Not trying to diagnose you off a single post, but just food for thought. Best of luck to you.

slowhand09 5y ago

I received this idea from my crossfit coach from years gone by. Strive to be 1% better today, at something, anything, or everything. A journey doing this regularly will enrich your life. Sort of like teaching a child to read, and encouraging them to read. 10 minutes a day... is 3650 minutes a year. Increments add up, skills progress. If you're not great at something, become above average at everything. Grow your life.

cowvin 5y ago

Most jobs aren't particularly lovable. That's why they pay you to do the work, right? Your expectations around work may be a little unrealistic. Ultimately, you work to earn money. The thing is, because of supply and demand, you get paid more for work that is either undesirable or requires rare skills (or both). Note that rare skills may be acquired through training or schooling, so if you have a rare skill you're interested in acquiring, you should go for it. The trade you were apprenticing in sounds like it would have led to a career. It sounds like you quit, though?

sethammons 5y ago

I was mostly a tech hobbyists until 27 when I got my first real programming role. I was a photographer assistant, a graphic designer, an insurance salesman, an investment advisor, a construction worker, and a high school math teacher all before I was a software developer.

giardini 5y ago

Apply for a job in the local municipality (city) and county governments. Both these entities typically have thousands of jobs, no two the same, requiring a wild variety of skills. I assure you there will be position(s) that they will hire you into. Pay is usually slightly lower than similar non-government work. On the other hand, most local and county governments have decent pension systems and good benefits, so tap into those as much as possible. And they won't ask you to do anything dangerous: civil governments are very risk-averse about their employees. Once you have a steady job, look into broadening your education. It could be as simple as learning conversational Spanish or as complex as pursuing a Masters' degree in Computer Science. Again, most governmental jobs encourage their employees to pursue further education, in some cases going so far as to allow class and travel time to count as work hours. If you get another degree then it is then your choice whether you choose to advance within the system or go outside.

pengwing 5y ago

Do you have insight into details, problems and current solutions in those 20 industries? I'm looking for validated B2B business ideas, e.g., companies in industry _ share problem _, this can be solved by software solution _, early adopters will be _, personal introduction can be made to _ .