6 ms·

But only if you make your app incompatible with all older iOS versions? Seems to me like not many people will benefit from this.m for some time to come.

sond813 5y ago
There’s also a linker flag that lets you use this format on older OS versions. It seems to work (I tested as far back as iOS 13.4.1) but couldn’t find any documentation to guarantee it won’t cause issues https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/683596 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/683596
munk-a 5y ago
As someone with a device locked on iOS 10 this makes me very happy. I have a desktop computer I bought in 2008 which is running Windows 10 and happy as a clam - and yet all my apple devices from before 2018 are essentially now bricks.
- Shadonototro 5y ago
  iOS 15 supports up to iPhone 6s wich was released in 2015 Windows 11 supports PCs with processors up to Intel Gen 8, wich was released in late 2017
  - hermitdev 5y ago
    I'm currently running Windows 11 preview on an i7 3970, circa 2012... It might not be "supported" at launch, but it works currently.
- jackson1442 5y ago
  What model? iPhone 6S was released in 2015 and will be able to run iOS 15.
  - mixmastamyk 5y ago
    Also Intel PCs haven’t changed a fraction as fast as the iPhone did in last decade.
- edgeform 5y ago
  > before 2018 are essentially now bricks Quit being overly antagonistic, you know this is hyperbole because you are > someone with a device locked on iOS 10
  - saurik 5y ago
    I feel like you think this means munk-a is merely refusing to update past iOS 10, but there are devices that simply can't. (The ones stuck specifically on iOS 10 forever are the iPhone 5 and 5c.)
    - lilyball 5y ago
      iPhone 5 is 9 years old, iPhone 5C is 8.
    - bingidingi 5y ago
      these devices are nearly 10 years old
    - extra88 5y ago
      Claiming devices from before 2018 are essentially bricks is still hyperbole because the iPhone 5c was released long before that, 2013. The iPhone 6s, released in 2015, will run iOS 15. I think the original message was poorly worded, I think they were imagining that devices that can't run iOS 15 would essentially be bricks because every app maker would build their apps in this way that only works on iOS 15 devices. Of course, this will not happen. It has long been the case that developers need to balance the advantages of using techniques enabled in newer OS versions against the advantage of supporting a wider range of OS versions.
      - saurik 5y ago
        Well, as someone who stays on slightly old versions of iOS, that I can't even order food off of DoorDash is pretty frustrating. The reality is that people do in fact derelict these old devices under an expectation that everyone is rich enough to throw out perfectly functional equipment and replace it all the time. It is sad that Apple is actually the best at this :/.
- oarsinsync 5y ago
  My iPhone SE is from 2016 and is getting iOS 15. What device do you have from 2017 that even shipped with iOS 10?
- busymom0 5y ago
  > apple devices from before 2018 are essentially now bricks That's not correct. My iPhone 6S is getting iOS 15 update too.
  - shinycode 5y ago
    My iPad Pro from 2017 works like the first day, I wanted to update but besides a nicer design there is not need to update it’s just super fast at everything
    - jimmydorry 5y ago
      Are you me? Same here, except mine is from 2015. Apart from a small chip on the edge of the screen, as a result of overzealous cabin crew, it works as well as it did on Day 1.
- tehnub 5y ago
  My iPad Air 2 will run IPadOS 15 and that was released in 2014.
- simondotau 5y ago
  Limited to iOS 10 means an iPhone 5 or 5C. So you're talking about a phone which is eight or nine years old. Tell me, what non-Apple phone from 2012 would have given you better long term support?
- coldtea 5y ago
  >and yet all my apple devices from before 2018 are essentially now bricks. I doubt many 2017 and 2016 models are "now bricks", though "before 2018" might also mean "2012" or so. In any case, none of them is a "brick". Even the unreleased Monterey version, post AS reveal, still supports tons of pre-2018 models: MacBook: Early 2016 and newer MacBook Air: Early 2015 and newer MacBook Pro: Early 2015 and newer Mac Mini: Late 2014 and newer iMac: Late 2015 and newer iMac Pro: Late 2017 Mac Pro: Late 2013 and newer And of course Big Sur continues to work on even earlier models. A very similar story is true for iOS devices - which is in fact a much better story than vendor Android support (which usually is 3 years max) or Windows Phone (which was discontinued altogether).
- code_duck 5y ago
  I have an iPhone 6 and while it doesn’t have the new iOS it still has all sorts of useful functionality. Apple does great in this regard compared to say, Samsung. With Android devices you’re also dependent upon the carrier for updates, which is obviously not what anyone sane would desire.
lilyball 5y ago
That’s always been true of these sorts of changes. But new apps often target the latest OS, and it’s common for existing apps to target “current minus one”, so it will only take a year or two for existing maintained apps to start benefitting from this.
Shadonototro 5y ago
with iOS it's not a problem 85% of all devices at already all on iOS 14 https://developer.apple.com/support/app-store/ https://developer.apple.com/support/app-store/
- oatmealsnap 5y ago
  15% is most likely too much to ignore. Most web developers have had to support IE11, which is at like, 3-4% tops.
  - DrammBA 5y ago
    I think the bigger problem is corporate environments, in my company, our B2B application sees IE11 usage at around 20-30%.
    - dhosek 5y ago
      This. Hell, most corporate users are still using Windows 7 (I try to avoid working some place I can't have a Mac, but despite Windows 8 having been released in 2012 and 20 in 2015, I have never seen either in a corporate environment).
  - dwaite 5y ago
    It is best to make your own decisions there based on some telemetry tbh. It will likely depend on your demographics but also upgrades may depend on your business model. For instance, you may be motivated to upgrade if you realize users who are on older iOS versions don't generate revenue.

sond813 5y ago

There’s also a linker flag that lets you use this format on older OS versions. It seems to work (I tested as far back as iOS 13.4.1) but couldn’t find any documentation to guarantee it won’t cause issues https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/683596 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/683596

munk-a 5y ago

As someone with a device locked on iOS 10 this makes me very happy. I have a desktop computer I bought in 2008 which is running Windows 10 and happy as a clam - and yet all my apple devices from before 2018 are essentially now bricks.

Shadonototro 5y ago
iOS 15 supports up to iPhone 6s wich was released in 2015 Windows 11 supports PCs with processors up to Intel Gen 8, wich was released in late 2017
- hermitdev 5y ago
  I'm currently running Windows 11 preview on an i7 3970, circa 2012... It might not be "supported" at launch, but it works currently.
jackson1442 5y ago
What model? iPhone 6S was released in 2015 and will be able to run iOS 15.
- mixmastamyk 5y ago
  Also Intel PCs haven’t changed a fraction as fast as the iPhone did in last decade.
edgeform 5y ago
> before 2018 are essentially now bricks Quit being overly antagonistic, you know this is hyperbole because you are > someone with a device locked on iOS 10
- saurik 5y ago
  I feel like you think this means munk-a is merely refusing to update past iOS 10, but there are devices that simply can't. (The ones stuck specifically on iOS 10 forever are the iPhone 5 and 5c.)
  - lilyball 5y ago
    iPhone 5 is 9 years old, iPhone 5C is 8.
  - bingidingi 5y ago
    these devices are nearly 10 years old
  - extra88 5y ago
    Claiming devices from before 2018 are essentially bricks is still hyperbole because the iPhone 5c was released long before that, 2013. The iPhone 6s, released in 2015, will run iOS 15. I think the original message was poorly worded, I think they were imagining that devices that can't run iOS 15 would essentially be bricks because every app maker would build their apps in this way that only works on iOS 15 devices. Of course, this will not happen. It has long been the case that developers need to balance the advantages of using techniques enabled in newer OS versions against the advantage of supporting a wider range of OS versions.
    - saurik 5y ago
      Well, as someone who stays on slightly old versions of iOS, that I can't even order food off of DoorDash is pretty frustrating. The reality is that people do in fact derelict these old devices under an expectation that everyone is rich enough to throw out perfectly functional equipment and replace it all the time. It is sad that Apple is actually the best at this :/.
oarsinsync 5y ago
My iPhone SE is from 2016 and is getting iOS 15. What device do you have from 2017 that even shipped with iOS 10?
busymom0 5y ago
> apple devices from before 2018 are essentially now bricks That's not correct. My iPhone 6S is getting iOS 15 update too.
- shinycode 5y ago
  My iPad Pro from 2017 works like the first day, I wanted to update but besides a nicer design there is not need to update it’s just super fast at everything
  - jimmydorry 5y ago
    Are you me? Same here, except mine is from 2015. Apart from a small chip on the edge of the screen, as a result of overzealous cabin crew, it works as well as it did on Day 1.
tehnub 5y ago
My iPad Air 2 will run IPadOS 15 and that was released in 2014.
simondotau 5y ago
Limited to iOS 10 means an iPhone 5 or 5C. So you're talking about a phone which is eight or nine years old. Tell me, what non-Apple phone from 2012 would have given you better long term support?
coldtea 5y ago
>and yet all my apple devices from before 2018 are essentially now bricks. I doubt many 2017 and 2016 models are "now bricks", though "before 2018" might also mean "2012" or so. In any case, none of them is a "brick". Even the unreleased Monterey version, post AS reveal, still supports tons of pre-2018 models: MacBook: Early 2016 and newer MacBook Air: Early 2015 and newer MacBook Pro: Early 2015 and newer Mac Mini: Late 2014 and newer iMac: Late 2015 and newer iMac Pro: Late 2017 Mac Pro: Late 2013 and newer And of course Big Sur continues to work on even earlier models. A very similar story is true for iOS devices - which is in fact a much better story than vendor Android support (which usually is 3 years max) or Windows Phone (which was discontinued altogether).
code_duck 5y ago
I have an iPhone 6 and while it doesn’t have the new iOS it still has all sorts of useful functionality. Apple does great in this regard compared to say, Samsung. With Android devices you’re also dependent upon the carrier for updates, which is obviously not what anyone sane would desire.

lilyball 5y ago

That’s always been true of these sorts of changes. But new apps often target the latest OS, and it’s common for existing apps to target “current minus one”, so it will only take a year or two for existing maintained apps to start benefitting from this.

Shadonototro 5y ago

with iOS it's not a problem 85% of all devices at already all on iOS 14 https://developer.apple.com/support/app-store/ https://developer.apple.com/support/app-store/

oatmealsnap 5y ago
15% is most likely too much to ignore. Most web developers have had to support IE11, which is at like, 3-4% tops.
- DrammBA 5y ago
  I think the bigger problem is corporate environments, in my company, our B2B application sees IE11 usage at around 20-30%.
  - dhosek 5y ago
    This. Hell, most corporate users are still using Windows 7 (I try to avoid working some place I can't have a Mac, but despite Windows 8 having been released in 2012 and 20 in 2015, I have never seen either in a corporate environment).
- dwaite 5y ago
  It is best to make your own decisions there based on some telemetry tbh. It will likely depend on your demographics but also upgrades may depend on your business model. For instance, you may be motivated to upgrade if you realize users who are on older iOS versions don't generate revenue.