8 ms·

Firebug lead developer now working on Web dev tools at Google

205 points by tbassetto 15y ago

scelerat 15y ago
I hope this doesn't portend bad things for Firebug down the road; it's nice to have a variety of tools, but kudos to Mr. Barton for making the move and, more importantly, providing a devastatingly useful and revolutionary web development tool. Front end web development changed seemingly overnight for the better when Firebug came on the scene.
- mikemaccana 15y ago
  Keen in mind that Firefox 8 (and 7, and I think earlier versions) has Web Developer tools built in, obviating much of the need for Firebug.
  - true_religion 15y ago
    Do you mean Chrome 8 and 7? Firefox is only up to 5 now.
    - stanleydrew 15y ago
      Firefox 8 is the nightly build now: http://ostatic.com/blog/early-glimpse-of-firefox-8-shows-vast-performance-increases http://ostatic.com/blog/early-glimpse-of-firefox-8-shows-vas...
    - jbp 15y ago
      Firefox moved to new release cycle. The current nightly build of Firefox is Firefox 8 @ http://nightly.mozilla.org/ http://nightly.mozilla.org/
  - tbassetto 15y ago
    Unfortunately, the new web developers tools* built into Firefox represent a small subset of what Firebug and Webkit Inspector can do. Since Firebug is not compatible with Nightlies (Firefox 8) and Aurora (Firefox 7), it's a major regression. * https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Using_the_Web_Console https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Using_the_Web_Console
    - zobzu 15y ago
      That's not even true. The web console is not a replacement for firebug. its just decent built in tools. Firebug - guess what - supports Firefox 7 and probably 8 too. And of course, Firefox 5 as well which is the latest release of Firefox btw. It's tiring to read the large amount of FUD against Firefox lately. People like you are the major regression to the interwebs. Very seriously. http://getfirebug.com/ http://getfirebug.com/
      - Locke1689 15y ago
        The page you linked indicates that Firefox 8 is not supported. Also, please try to be civil with your comments in the future (and welcome to HN).
      - deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
      - mikemaccana 15y ago
        > That's not even true. Today I needed to determine if any resources were 404ing on a page. Yesterday I wanted to see the exact POST request my browser was sending. I did both on FF using the inbuilt developer tools. I'm sure they may not replace every piece of Firebug functionality, but I didn't say they did. > People like you are the major regression to the interwebs. Very seriously. I've flagged your post. Please read http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - dangoor 15y ago
      The Firebug team has tests running against Nightly. Bugs are caught and fixed fairly quickly. Because we work to catch bugs during the Nightly phase, there should not be much time during which an Aurora build is not compatible with a pre-release (at least!) Firebug, and that would be soon after Aurora is branched. Given that Nightly is the least stable kind of build and could have other problems along the way, we've reached a pretty good point with Firebug's compatibility. Of course, you also have the Web Console if you're having trouble with Firebug (and I'll grant that this alone is not a replacement for Firebug!) ObDisclaimer: I'm the product manager for devtools at Mozilla.
  - RyanKearney 15y ago
    Sort of like Chrome. Firefox has becoming nothing more than the browser that copies Chrome from this point on. Its market share is already starting to slip away and it won't be long now before Firefox is the next Netscape Navigator.
    - ootachi 15y ago
      Exactly. There is not a thing that Firefox does that Chrome doesn't do better.
      - M1573RMU74710N 15y ago
        I don't know if that's entirely true. I do a lot of Firefox extension development. Many companies or users have a need for highly specialized functionality built into a browser, and Firefox provides an very rich platform for that. You can easily build powerful applications that integrate tightly with Firefox. Chrome's extension capability is much lighter and more restricted; Chrome extensions are just light little packets of functionality that add to the browser. There's many things that you can't do that you could do in Firefox. I think that area is definitely where Firefox wins, and will probably continue winning in the future. Does everyone need that, and is it enough to keep a large market share? I don't know...but it is something that Firefox does better.
        blasdel 15y ago
        Unfortunately Mozilla is intent on squandering every last advantage they still had by copying what Chrome does. They abandoned XULRunner and Gecko as independent platforms. They're committing to breaking every traditional extension every 6 weeks with the new release cycle (and told institutional users to go fuck themselves). The new stable extension APIs will be limited just like Chrome. Companies will just switch to modern IE, Iceweasel, or Safari to get a maintained shelf-stable browser. Everyone else will use Chrome.
        M1573RMU74710N 15y ago
- gruseom 15y ago
  Front end web development changed seemingly overnight for the better when Firebug came on the scene. That's true, but let's give credit where credit's due. It was Joe Hewitt who created Firebug.
inportb 15y ago
Well, it boils down to money, and Google's got it. I'd call that a major win for Google ;)
- scorchin 15y ago
  I don't think Mozilla is short on cash. In 2009 the Mozilla Foundation chalked up $104 million in revenue[1] from ties with Google, Yahoo, Yandex, Amazon, Ebay and others. I'd imagine there are some large donations in there as well. [1] http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/annualreport/2009/faq.html http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/annualreport/2009/faq.html
  - azakai 15y ago
    Google's resources are orders of magnitude larger than Mozilla's. Google's marketing budget for Chrome is likely larger than Mozilla's entire budget overall. I can't say anything about this particular hire and what the reasons were there, since I know nothing about it. But in general if money is your goal, Google can outbid everyone else, often by a lot.
    - magicalist 15y ago
      In spite of the completely irrelevant lack of marketing money, Mozilla could still have hired John (if he would even have accepted, at this point). I wasn't expecting this announcement, but it's not surprising. Google is actively developing their dev tools, and Mozilla has...some exploratory experiments, with no concrete roadmap for a feature complete Firebug replacement. I still don't understand the politics behind Mozilla's decisions regarding firebug and switching to developing built-in tools (while giving token support to the firebug crew), but it was a poor one. A clean slate is great in theory, but when you alienate a community and defacto-deprecate a tool with no replacement in sight, this is exactly the kind of thing you should expect.
      - dangoor 15y ago
        I will certainly grant that our roadmap has never called for a "feature complete Firebug replacement". Our goal has been to explore new ideas while building out tools that we can ship with the browser. We're also working on improving Firefox's infrastructure for developer tools (a whole new JavaScript debugging interface is underway for SpiderMonkey, for example). Mozilla has a lot going on and Firebug, for it's part, is an independent project with goals and plans of its own. I wrote about this a bit here: http://blog.mozilla.com/devtools/2011/05/25/the-relationship-between-firebug-and-mozilla-developer-tools/ http://blog.mozilla.com/devtools/2011/05/25/the-relationship... Mozilla's developer tools work has been steadily increasing this year, and you'll start seeing a good deal more communication about what we're up to. Kevin (product manager for Mozilla's developer tools)
nestlequ1k 15y ago
I switched to Chrome web dev tools about 5 months ago and haven't had a reason to launch Firefox since. There's still stuff I miss about firebug, but overall the chrome web tools are a gigantic improvement in speed, reliability, and functionality. Firebug feels like a dinosaur in comparison. Capturing the web developer mindshare is actually a huge win for Google, because it means the quality of web apps is going to be highest for Chrome end-users, with subtle but visible bugs in other browsers due to the simple fact that developers will spend less time in these browsers.
- hackinthebochs 15y ago
  I have the exact opposite experience with Chrome dev tools. It feel clunky and poorly designed in comparison to firebug. Things like clicking on an element you're trying to edit doesn't work. The page doesn't automatically update your changes as you type them. Trying to modify an html attribute in line is a battle. I could go on. It just doesn't feel polished. It doesn't feel like the people who wrote it actually use it, whereas firebug feels like the user experience was first priority.
  - inportb 15y ago
    It appears that this might start to turn around now...
  - true_religion 15y ago
    Chrome has the best Javascript debugging tools. However when it comes to CSS and HTML, its lagging behind Firebug. That said, now adays I find myself in Chrome far more than Firefox simply because Javascript debugging in Chrome is fast, never crashes, and is pretty necessary if you're building an extensive rich interface app.
    - csomar 15y ago
      I don't think I agree, as a heavy JavaScript developer. I use FireBug specifically for JavaScript debugging, here are the reasons: 1. The console is a lot better. You aren't limited to the one line interpreter that Chrome provides. 2. Using console.log, and console.dir I get a colored DOM/JSON output. I can click the DOM element and it'll get me to the DOM/HTML tab. This is not available in Chrome. I can move the mouse over the DOM element and it'll be highlighted in the browser. 3. Add-ons: I use the jQuery and Cookies add-ons and they add a lot to the console. I can include jQuery with a click and it highlights the jQuery objects for me in the console. I can watch cookies changes from the console directly. 4. For the debugging tools, they are equal. For syntax coloring the JavaScript code, there is a Firebug add-on for that.
camworld 15y ago
I don't think it's about money. I feel that Mozilla has made a strategic mistake in switching to a very rapid release schedule. My clients keep saying things like, "Firefox 5? Didn't Firefox 4 just come out like two months ago?" I haven't even bothered with Firefox 5 yet. It's not worth my time to work inside yet another browser. At this rate, I might as well just dump Firefox and work inside Chrome. Mozilla needs to slow the hell down and let Extension developers catch up.
- Osmose 15y ago
  As far as I know, Chrome releases every 6 weeks as well. If you switch to working with Chrome you'll be working under the same rapid release schedule.
  - jonknee 15y ago
    But without knowing any better. Chrome has always updated on its own and there's no reason to know what version of Chrome you're using because it's the latest. I had to check just now, apparently it's 12. FireFox has always had hugely publicized major updates with a long time between them, so there's a disconnect--you're supposed to care about a new FF version.
    - inportb 15y ago
      Firefox updates also result in extension breakage.
      - gonchuki 15y ago
        Chrome updates also result in JavaScript breakage. File/Blob API is an example that, while being experimental and a moving target, happened on the background and broke from one launch of the browser to the other without the dev knowing what the heck was going on. Same breakage happened from Firefox 4 to 5, but at least the end user (the dev in this case) knows that something important happened and might be related to that. This is key.
- 15y ago
kimkk 15y ago
That is the way, Google grows.
trungonnews 15y ago
this is pretty much game over for firebug...
- dangoor 15y ago
  No, actually it's not. John is part of a team that manages and develops Firebug. The team is still there, including Jan Odvarko who we (Mozilla) pay to work full-time on Firebug. I don't want to downplay John's part in Firebug, which is huge and it's a real shame that the project is losing him. I just want to point out that you will continue to see Firebug releases going forward. Kevin (PM for Mozilla's developer tools)
dr_win 15y ago
Hmm, interesting. I guess, now it's Joe's chance to elevate Firebug yet again :-) http://joehewitt.com/post/creative-tools http://joehewitt.com/post/creative-tools
- rmc 15y ago
  Dead link
gary4gar 15y ago
I am Sold. I am switching to WebDev tools. If anyone needs an intro, here is video of session done during Google I/O 2011 -> Google I/O 2011: Chrome Dev Tools Reloaded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8SS-rUEZPg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8SS-rUEZPg Btw, Paul Irish is co-presenter ;)
- SonicSoul 15y ago
  the best thing i learned from this video: #BADA55 <-- nice shade of green
- eneveu 15y ago
  Interesting video. Thanks! Some nice tips & tricks were also posted on the chromium blog a few months ago: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/02/chrome-developer-tools-back-to-basics.html http://blog.chromium.org/2011/02/chrome-developer-tools-back...
grandalf 15y ago
feature request: figure out some convention to do console output that doesn't break on browsers that don't support the console. Maybe something like: //->console.log("hello world")
- enneff 15y ago
  if (!window.console) { window.console = { log: function() {} } }
  - grandalf 15y ago
    I have been using that approach and for some reason IE8 still errors!
  - Inviz 15y ago
    1. there are more methods (dir, group, error, etc) 2. some browsers provide console.log but not others 3. those methods most of the time are not .apply'able or .call'able. that matters when you try to output an array of items with the right firebug/devtools coloring. But you cant. You get the ["Message", "was sent", {Object}] output with the arrayish square brackets and all strings with the double quotes. If you pass values directly via console.log(type, action, object) the output will not have double quotes around each string and the "Message was sent" part will read as one sentence, not two values of one array. 4. Some combinations of firefox (i think ff4) with firebug (even disabled) raise exceptions when you attempt to redefine one of the console objects. The exception alone renders some of the sites broken. Handling the console object is needlessly painful and hard. Someone has to stop it.
    - psadauskas 15y ago
      function myLog() { if(window.console && window.console.log) { window.console.log(arguments) } }
      - Inviz 15y ago
        What do you think happens when you pass arguments to functions like that?
plasma 15y ago
You can use 'Firebug Lite' with Chrome (http://getfirebug.com/ http://getfirebug.com/), as well as IE/other browsers. I use Chrome's built in dev tools but also Firebug Lite, its handy to see Ajax queries (and console debug logs) on the actual page instead of a separate Chrome window.
ycombiefan 15y ago
google takes over all.
ootachi 15y ago
Mozilla is pretty much treading water at this point. It's only a matter of time before the inevitable drowning.
- cageface 15y ago
  I thought so too but Firefox 5+ is much improved. It's close to a toss-up for me between Chrome and Firefox at the moment.
omouse 15y ago
BASTARDS THEYRE TAKING IT ALL AWAY FROM ME! I used to love firefox but since firefox4 and the awesome speed of Chrome...it's been hard not to turn away from it ;/
TechnoFou 15y ago
Well the Chrome tools are already awesome. I didn't even need the CSS Selector plugin for Firefox with Chrome because it has a similar built it feature. It can only get better with the inclusion of Firebug's lead developer! Congrats for the best!
maurycy 15y ago
Business as usual, at Mountain View. My guess, Firefox have gotten that big because of the developers that installed the browser everywhere. It's the same story as Twitter, which flourished the same way. That's why the Chrome developments do not come as a surprise, as well as the Google+'s API, which is already in closed beta (how many years it took Facebook to create their own "platform" that, effectively, alienated many regular users, not interested in the farm news?)
SonicSoul 15y ago
couldn't he still contribute to Firebug in his spare time?
millergarym 15y ago
I do a lot of my development in GWT. Ironically whilst JS heavy app run much better in Chrome, in GWT devmode Firefox is still king and Firebug the dev weapon of choice.

205 points by tbassetto 15y ago

I hope this doesn't portend bad things for Firebug down the road; it's nice to have a variety of tools, but kudos to Mr. Barton for making the move and, more importantly, providing a devastatingly useful and revolutionary web development tool. Front end web development changed seemingly overnight for the better when Firebug came on the scene.

mikemaccana 15y ago
Keen in mind that Firefox 8 (and 7, and I think earlier versions) has Web Developer tools built in, obviating much of the need for Firebug.
- true_religion 15y ago
  Do you mean Chrome 8 and 7? Firefox is only up to 5 now.
  - stanleydrew 15y ago
    Firefox 8 is the nightly build now: http://ostatic.com/blog/early-glimpse-of-firefox-8-shows-vast-performance-increases http://ostatic.com/blog/early-glimpse-of-firefox-8-shows-vas...
  - jbp 15y ago
    Firefox moved to new release cycle. The current nightly build of Firefox is Firefox 8 @ http://nightly.mozilla.org/ http://nightly.mozilla.org/
- tbassetto 15y ago
  Unfortunately, the new web developers tools* built into Firefox represent a small subset of what Firebug and Webkit Inspector can do. Since Firebug is not compatible with Nightlies (Firefox 8) and Aurora (Firefox 7), it's a major regression. * https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Using_the_Web_Console https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Using_the_Web_Console
  - zobzu 15y ago
    That's not even true. The web console is not a replacement for firebug. its just decent built in tools. Firebug - guess what - supports Firefox 7 and probably 8 too. And of course, Firefox 5 as well which is the latest release of Firefox btw. It's tiring to read the large amount of FUD against Firefox lately. People like you are the major regression to the interwebs. Very seriously. http://getfirebug.com/ http://getfirebug.com/
    - Locke1689 15y ago
      The page you linked indicates that Firefox 8 is not supported. Also, please try to be civil with your comments in the future (and welcome to HN).
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
    - mikemaccana 15y ago
      > That's not even true. Today I needed to determine if any resources were 404ing on a page. Yesterday I wanted to see the exact POST request my browser was sending. I did both on FF using the inbuilt developer tools. I'm sure they may not replace every piece of Firebug functionality, but I didn't say they did. > People like you are the major regression to the interwebs. Very seriously. I've flagged your post. Please read http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - dangoor 15y ago
    The Firebug team has tests running against Nightly. Bugs are caught and fixed fairly quickly. Because we work to catch bugs during the Nightly phase, there should not be much time during which an Aurora build is not compatible with a pre-release (at least!) Firebug, and that would be soon after Aurora is branched. Given that Nightly is the least stable kind of build and could have other problems along the way, we've reached a pretty good point with Firebug's compatibility. Of course, you also have the Web Console if you're having trouble with Firebug (and I'll grant that this alone is not a replacement for Firebug!) ObDisclaimer: I'm the product manager for devtools at Mozilla.
- RyanKearney 15y ago
  Sort of like Chrome. Firefox has becoming nothing more than the browser that copies Chrome from this point on. Its market share is already starting to slip away and it won't be long now before Firefox is the next Netscape Navigator.
  - ootachi 15y ago
    Exactly. There is not a thing that Firefox does that Chrome doesn't do better.
    - M1573RMU74710N 15y ago
      I don't know if that's entirely true. I do a lot of Firefox extension development. Many companies or users have a need for highly specialized functionality built into a browser, and Firefox provides an very rich platform for that. You can easily build powerful applications that integrate tightly with Firefox. Chrome's extension capability is much lighter and more restricted; Chrome extensions are just light little packets of functionality that add to the browser. There's many things that you can't do that you could do in Firefox. I think that area is definitely where Firefox wins, and will probably continue winning in the future. Does everyone need that, and is it enough to keep a large market share? I don't know...but it is something that Firefox does better.
      - blasdel 15y ago
        Unfortunately Mozilla is intent on squandering every last advantage they still had by copying what Chrome does. They abandoned XULRunner and Gecko as independent platforms. They're committing to breaking every traditional extension every 6 weeks with the new release cycle (and told institutional users to go fuck themselves). The new stable extension APIs will be limited just like Chrome. Companies will just switch to modern IE, Iceweasel, or Safari to get a maintained shelf-stable browser. Everyone else will use Chrome.
        M1573RMU74710N 15y ago
gruseom 15y ago
Front end web development changed seemingly overnight for the better when Firebug came on the scene. That's true, but let's give credit where credit's due. It was Joe Hewitt who created Firebug.

inportb 15y ago

Well, it boils down to money, and Google's got it. I'd call that a major win for Google ;)

scorchin 15y ago
I don't think Mozilla is short on cash. In 2009 the Mozilla Foundation chalked up $104 million in revenue[1] from ties with Google, Yahoo, Yandex, Amazon, Ebay and others. I'd imagine there are some large donations in there as well. [1] http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/annualreport/2009/faq.html http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/annualreport/2009/faq.html
- azakai 15y ago
  Google's resources are orders of magnitude larger than Mozilla's. Google's marketing budget for Chrome is likely larger than Mozilla's entire budget overall. I can't say anything about this particular hire and what the reasons were there, since I know nothing about it. But in general if money is your goal, Google can outbid everyone else, often by a lot.
  - magicalist 15y ago
    In spite of the completely irrelevant lack of marketing money, Mozilla could still have hired John (if he would even have accepted, at this point). I wasn't expecting this announcement, but it's not surprising. Google is actively developing their dev tools, and Mozilla has...some exploratory experiments, with no concrete roadmap for a feature complete Firebug replacement. I still don't understand the politics behind Mozilla's decisions regarding firebug and switching to developing built-in tools (while giving token support to the firebug crew), but it was a poor one. A clean slate is great in theory, but when you alienate a community and defacto-deprecate a tool with no replacement in sight, this is exactly the kind of thing you should expect.
    - dangoor 15y ago
      I will certainly grant that our roadmap has never called for a "feature complete Firebug replacement". Our goal has been to explore new ideas while building out tools that we can ship with the browser. We're also working on improving Firefox's infrastructure for developer tools (a whole new JavaScript debugging interface is underway for SpiderMonkey, for example). Mozilla has a lot going on and Firebug, for it's part, is an independent project with goals and plans of its own. I wrote about this a bit here: http://blog.mozilla.com/devtools/2011/05/25/the-relationship-between-firebug-and-mozilla-developer-tools/ http://blog.mozilla.com/devtools/2011/05/25/the-relationship... Mozilla's developer tools work has been steadily increasing this year, and you'll start seeing a good deal more communication about what we're up to. Kevin (product manager for Mozilla's developer tools)

nestlequ1k 15y ago

I switched to Chrome web dev tools about 5 months ago and haven't had a reason to launch Firefox since. There's still stuff I miss about firebug, but overall the chrome web tools are a gigantic improvement in speed, reliability, and functionality. Firebug feels like a dinosaur in comparison. Capturing the web developer mindshare is actually a huge win for Google, because it means the quality of web apps is going to be highest for Chrome end-users, with subtle but visible bugs in other browsers due to the simple fact that developers will spend less time in these browsers.

hackinthebochs 15y ago
I have the exact opposite experience with Chrome dev tools. It feel clunky and poorly designed in comparison to firebug. Things like clicking on an element you're trying to edit doesn't work. The page doesn't automatically update your changes as you type them. Trying to modify an html attribute in line is a battle. I could go on. It just doesn't feel polished. It doesn't feel like the people who wrote it actually use it, whereas firebug feels like the user experience was first priority.
- inportb 15y ago
  It appears that this might start to turn around now...
- true_religion 15y ago
  Chrome has the best Javascript debugging tools. However when it comes to CSS and HTML, its lagging behind Firebug. That said, now adays I find myself in Chrome far more than Firefox simply because Javascript debugging in Chrome is fast, never crashes, and is pretty necessary if you're building an extensive rich interface app.
  - csomar 15y ago
    I don't think I agree, as a heavy JavaScript developer. I use FireBug specifically for JavaScript debugging, here are the reasons: 1. The console is a lot better. You aren't limited to the one line interpreter that Chrome provides. 2. Using console.log, and console.dir I get a colored DOM/JSON output. I can click the DOM element and it'll get me to the DOM/HTML tab. This is not available in Chrome. I can move the mouse over the DOM element and it'll be highlighted in the browser. 3. Add-ons: I use the jQuery and Cookies add-ons and they add a lot to the console. I can include jQuery with a click and it highlights the jQuery objects for me in the console. I can watch cookies changes from the console directly. 4. For the debugging tools, they are equal. For syntax coloring the JavaScript code, there is a Firebug add-on for that.

camworld 15y ago

I don't think it's about money. I feel that Mozilla has made a strategic mistake in switching to a very rapid release schedule. My clients keep saying things like, "Firefox 5? Didn't Firefox 4 just come out like two months ago?" I haven't even bothered with Firefox 5 yet. It's not worth my time to work inside yet another browser. At this rate, I might as well just dump Firefox and work inside Chrome. Mozilla needs to slow the hell down and let Extension developers catch up.

Osmose 15y ago
As far as I know, Chrome releases every 6 weeks as well. If you switch to working with Chrome you'll be working under the same rapid release schedule.
- jonknee 15y ago
  But without knowing any better. Chrome has always updated on its own and there's no reason to know what version of Chrome you're using because it's the latest. I had to check just now, apparently it's 12. FireFox has always had hugely publicized major updates with a long time between them, so there's a disconnect--you're supposed to care about a new FF version.
  - inportb 15y ago
    Firefox updates also result in extension breakage.
    - gonchuki 15y ago
      Chrome updates also result in JavaScript breakage. File/Blob API is an example that, while being experimental and a moving target, happened on the background and broke from one launch of the browser to the other without the dev knowing what the heck was going on. Same breakage happened from Firefox 4 to 5, but at least the end user (the dev in this case) knows that something important happened and might be related to that. This is key.
15y ago

kimkk 15y ago

That is the way, Google grows.

trungonnews 15y ago

this is pretty much game over for firebug...

dangoor 15y ago
No, actually it's not. John is part of a team that manages and develops Firebug. The team is still there, including Jan Odvarko who we (Mozilla) pay to work full-time on Firebug. I don't want to downplay John's part in Firebug, which is huge and it's a real shame that the project is losing him. I just want to point out that you will continue to see Firebug releases going forward. Kevin (PM for Mozilla's developer tools)

dr_win 15y ago

Hmm, interesting. I guess, now it's Joe's chance to elevate Firebug yet again :-) http://joehewitt.com/post/creative-tools http://joehewitt.com/post/creative-tools

rmc 15y ago
Dead link

gary4gar 15y ago

I am Sold. I am switching to WebDev tools. If anyone needs an intro, here is video of session done during Google I/O 2011 -> Google I/O 2011: Chrome Dev Tools Reloaded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8SS-rUEZPg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8SS-rUEZPg Btw, Paul Irish is co-presenter ;)

SonicSoul 15y ago
the best thing i learned from this video: #BADA55 <-- nice shade of green
eneveu 15y ago
Interesting video. Thanks! Some nice tips & tricks were also posted on the chromium blog a few months ago: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/02/chrome-developer-tools-back-to-basics.html http://blog.chromium.org/2011/02/chrome-developer-tools-back...

grandalf 15y ago

feature request: figure out some convention to do console output that doesn't break on browsers that don't support the console. Maybe something like: //->console.log("hello world")

enneff 15y ago
if (!window.console) { window.console = { log: function() {} } }
- grandalf 15y ago
  I have been using that approach and for some reason IE8 still errors!
- Inviz 15y ago
  1. there are more methods (dir, group, error, etc) 2. some browsers provide console.log but not others 3. those methods most of the time are not .apply'able or .call'able. that matters when you try to output an array of items with the right firebug/devtools coloring. But you cant. You get the ["Message", "was sent", {Object}] output with the arrayish square brackets and all strings with the double quotes. If you pass values directly via console.log(type, action, object) the output will not have double quotes around each string and the "Message was sent" part will read as one sentence, not two values of one array. 4. Some combinations of firefox (i think ff4) with firebug (even disabled) raise exceptions when you attempt to redefine one of the console objects. The exception alone renders some of the sites broken. Handling the console object is needlessly painful and hard. Someone has to stop it.
  - psadauskas 15y ago
    function myLog() { if(window.console && window.console.log) { window.console.log(arguments) } }
    - Inviz 15y ago
      What do you think happens when you pass arguments to functions like that?

plasma 15y ago

You can use 'Firebug Lite' with Chrome (http://getfirebug.com/ http://getfirebug.com/), as well as IE/other browsers. I use Chrome's built in dev tools but also Firebug Lite, its handy to see Ajax queries (and console debug logs) on the actual page instead of a separate Chrome window.

ycombiefan 15y ago

google takes over all.

ootachi 15y ago

Mozilla is pretty much treading water at this point. It's only a matter of time before the inevitable drowning.

cageface 15y ago
I thought so too but Firefox 5+ is much improved. It's close to a toss-up for me between Chrome and Firefox at the moment.

omouse 15y ago

BASTARDS THEYRE TAKING IT ALL AWAY FROM ME! I used to love firefox but since firefox4 and the awesome speed of Chrome...it's been hard not to turn away from it ;/

TechnoFou 15y ago

Well the Chrome tools are already awesome. I didn't even need the CSS Selector plugin for Firefox with Chrome because it has a similar built it feature. It can only get better with the inclusion of Firebug's lead developer! Congrats for the best!

maurycy 15y ago

Business as usual, at Mountain View. My guess, Firefox have gotten that big because of the developers that installed the browser everywhere. It's the same story as Twitter, which flourished the same way. That's why the Chrome developments do not come as a surprise, as well as the Google+'s API, which is already in closed beta (how many years it took Facebook to create their own "platform" that, effectively, alienated many regular users, not interested in the farm news?)

SonicSoul 15y ago

couldn't he still contribute to Firebug in his spare time?

millergarym 15y ago

I do a lot of my development in GWT. Ironically whilst JS heavy app run much better in Chrome, in GWT devmode Firefox is still king and Firebug the dev weapon of choice.