3 ms·

You are the outlier of the outlier. And if you plan it well, EV charge actually faster in the lower 50%. So if you really want to optimize you can actually do

by nickik 5y ago

You are the outlier of the outlier. And if you plan it well, EV charge actually faster in the lower 50%. So if you really want to optimize you can actually do it with shorter 10 min stops. Check out Kyle from inside EV. And until you can seriously deploy Hydrogen vehicles, it would be a few years down the road. Until then the next generation of battery an charging will be significantly faster already. Practically speaking most people simply don't drive like that, people need to eat, pie and so on. With an EV you simply stop at a charger do all the things and go back. That usually takes 10ish minutes. And to be honest, every road trip with at least on other person usually means a break every 3h anyway. And even more in a day to day application, most people charge over night, so never having to go to a station and having a short break every few hours is vastly preferable to having to constantly go to the hydrogen station. Of course hydrogen would also be significantly more expensive. All in all, it simply doesn't make practical sense to optimize everything for this one specific thing.

jackthezipper 5y ago
>You are the outlier of the outlier. I don't think I am. Camping vacations in Europe are very common. 1500 km in two days really isn't as uncommon as you might think. For clarity, I'm not saying it can't be done with an EV, I'm just saying the relatively many, long, mandatory breaks aren't nearly as convenient as the relatively few short ones that regular cars, and perhaps in the future, hydrogen cars, offer. And again, taking a quick break to stretch your legs a bit, is not the same as needing to take a 20 minute break in order to be able to continue your journey. This might seem like a small detail but I really don't think it is.
- theluketaylor 5y ago
  If you're taking a family camping vacation every time you stop the car it's going to be a 15-20 minute minimum stop by the time everyone climbs out, goes to the bathroom, and gets loaded back in. I don't believe you can transport 3 or more people without needing to stop at least once every 3-4 hours. Here in Canada things are way, way further apart than Europe and car travel to vacation is often many hours or days apart. I have taken a number of EV road trips and I have not had to stop more often or stay longer than I would have in a gas car. Charging speeds and range are only getting better, but they are already well into low/no impact territory.
  - jackthezipper 5y ago
    > I don't believe you can transport 3 or more people without needing to stop at least once every 3-4 hours. Okay. I can, and do so a few times a year. Also, the 3/4 hours people keep referring to, is that in a fully loaded car pulling a caravan while occasionally driving through mountain ranges with an average speed of 100 km/h? And for the last time, wanting to take a 20 minute break is different from having to. We often postpone/skip planned breaks in order to stay ahead of rush hour, or to reach the campsite before closing time, just to name two common reasons. Mandatory 20 minute breaks greatly reduce your freedom while traveling. No matter how little of a problem this is for you personally.
    - nickik 5y ago
      Again you just keep adding more and more stuff to defend your concept and it applies to fewer and fewer people. The waste majority, 99.9something people will never drive with a caravan and most don't go threw the mountains. You simply need to accept that you are representing an expedition, this has been studded. Most cars only very, very rarely do long travel at all. And when they do they don't do it very often. And when they do they stop reasonably often anyway. You can simply accept that an EV is not for you for the moment because you are apparently a special case. Most people don't stop wanting to pie so they can beat rush hour to a campsite. That is simply not the case for 99.9999% of miles driven.
      - jackthezipper 5y ago
        >Most cars only very, very rarely do long travel at all. And when they do they don't do it very often. I agree, and this is what I said in my first post. My entire point is that, for most people, a car needs to meet _all_ needs, not 99% of them. Don't get me wrong, EV's are a great step forward, but perhaps hydrogen can solve some problems EV's can not. They might very well introduce more problems than they solve, fair enough. But it seems silly to just brush off possible solutions in favour of an incomplete one. Yet this is what happens every time hydrogen gets mentioned. >And when they do they stop reasonably often anyway. You are ignoring the optional vs mandatory difference. Whether it's a problem for you or me personally is irrelevant, the fact is it limits your freedom considerably.
- nickik 5y ago
  If you have children you need to stop more often period. Even most woman that I have traveled with actually want to stop far more often. Sure, with a bunch of guys driving to Italy we might go 3-4 hours non stop but that is as I pointed the exception. I have traveled threw Europe all my life and the idea that 15-20min stops every few hours are a major deal-breaker is just nonsense. You want to pie, you want to eat, you want to go to the shop and get some drinks. Simply stopping, plugging in, going to pie, get a drink in the shop and stretching your legs for 5min already adds enough to drive another couple hours. And even if you are a case, where you really are driving like that, 1-2 times a year where you do journey like that the extra 30min you spend on the journey are really not the end of the world. I honestly can not describe it any other way then a small detail that wouldn't matter to the waste majority of people. And even if that is still a problem, a few years from now batteries will be better, charging will be even faster and density will be higher. Hydrogen would not be the right answer.

by nickik 5y ago

jackthezipper 5y ago

>You are the outlier of the outlier. I don't think I am. Camping vacations in Europe are very common. 1500 km in two days really isn't as uncommon as you might think. For clarity, I'm not saying it can't be done with an EV, I'm just saying the relatively many, long, mandatory breaks aren't nearly as convenient as the relatively few short ones that regular cars, and perhaps in the future, hydrogen cars, offer. And again, taking a quick break to stretch your legs a bit, is not the same as needing to take a 20 minute break in order to be able to continue your journey. This might seem like a small detail but I really don't think it is.

theluketaylor 5y ago
If you're taking a family camping vacation every time you stop the car it's going to be a 15-20 minute minimum stop by the time everyone climbs out, goes to the bathroom, and gets loaded back in. I don't believe you can transport 3 or more people without needing to stop at least once every 3-4 hours. Here in Canada things are way, way further apart than Europe and car travel to vacation is often many hours or days apart. I have taken a number of EV road trips and I have not had to stop more often or stay longer than I would have in a gas car. Charging speeds and range are only getting better, but they are already well into low/no impact territory.
- jackthezipper 5y ago
  > I don't believe you can transport 3 or more people without needing to stop at least once every 3-4 hours. Okay. I can, and do so a few times a year. Also, the 3/4 hours people keep referring to, is that in a fully loaded car pulling a caravan while occasionally driving through mountain ranges with an average speed of 100 km/h? And for the last time, wanting to take a 20 minute break is different from having to. We often postpone/skip planned breaks in order to stay ahead of rush hour, or to reach the campsite before closing time, just to name two common reasons. Mandatory 20 minute breaks greatly reduce your freedom while traveling. No matter how little of a problem this is for you personally.
  - nickik 5y ago
    Again you just keep adding more and more stuff to defend your concept and it applies to fewer and fewer people. The waste majority, 99.9something people will never drive with a caravan and most don't go threw the mountains. You simply need to accept that you are representing an expedition, this has been studded. Most cars only very, very rarely do long travel at all. And when they do they don't do it very often. And when they do they stop reasonably often anyway. You can simply accept that an EV is not for you for the moment because you are apparently a special case. Most people don't stop wanting to pie so they can beat rush hour to a campsite. That is simply not the case for 99.9999% of miles driven.
    - jackthezipper 5y ago
      >Most cars only very, very rarely do long travel at all. And when they do they don't do it very often. I agree, and this is what I said in my first post. My entire point is that, for most people, a car needs to meet _all_ needs, not 99% of them. Don't get me wrong, EV's are a great step forward, but perhaps hydrogen can solve some problems EV's can not. They might very well introduce more problems than they solve, fair enough. But it seems silly to just brush off possible solutions in favour of an incomplete one. Yet this is what happens every time hydrogen gets mentioned. >And when they do they stop reasonably often anyway. You are ignoring the optional vs mandatory difference. Whether it's a problem for you or me personally is irrelevant, the fact is it limits your freedom considerably.
nickik 5y ago
If you have children you need to stop more often period. Even most woman that I have traveled with actually want to stop far more often. Sure, with a bunch of guys driving to Italy we might go 3-4 hours non stop but that is as I pointed the exception. I have traveled threw Europe all my life and the idea that 15-20min stops every few hours are a major deal-breaker is just nonsense. You want to pie, you want to eat, you want to go to the shop and get some drinks. Simply stopping, plugging in, going to pie, get a drink in the shop and stretching your legs for 5min already adds enough to drive another couple hours. And even if you are a case, where you really are driving like that, 1-2 times a year where you do journey like that the extra 30min you spend on the journey are really not the end of the world. I honestly can not describe it any other way then a small detail that wouldn't matter to the waste majority of people. And even if that is still a problem, a few years from now batteries will be better, charging will be even faster and density will be higher. Hydrogen would not be the right answer.