4 ms·

As someone who runs both in production, Nomad would almost certainly meet your needs. Learning how to operate Kubernetes well takes a while and I would say is

As someone who runs both in production, Nomad would almost certainly meet your needs. Learning how to operate Kubernetes well takes a while and I would say is only worth the investment for a extremely tiny percentage of companies.

sgarland 5y ago
Maybe, but for better or worse it's also become the industry standard, much like Terraform. If you don't know k8s and Terraform, you're shooting yourself in the foot for future jobs.
- busterarm 5y ago
  K8s is an enormously complex piece of software and I haven't met a great many people who "know" it inside and out. Basic concepts and how to write a job/service/ingress, sure. Knowing the internals and how to operate it? I'd say that's only for specialists. Most people don't need to know what a Finalizer is or does. Most people aren't going to write operators. It is a multi-year investment of time to deeply understand this tool and it's not necessary for everyone.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - pgwhalen 5y ago
    The same could be said for the linux kernel, and yet we still run all of our software on it.
    - busterarm 5y ago
      Except with the kernel, you only have to be familiar with the system calls and you don't need a team of people just to run, maintain and upgrade the kernel. That and it tries to make breaking changes on the timescale of decades rather than every other minor release (so, once or twice a year?).
      - pgwhalen 5y ago
        > Except with the kernel, you only have to be familiar with the system calls I think it's safe to assume that any non-trivial use of linux involves non-default configuration. > you don't need a team of people just to run, maintain and upgrade the kernel. My relatively small company employed linux admins before we adopted (on prem) kubernetes. Their work has changed a bit since since then, but it isn't meaningfully more laborious. I assume that less effort is required for cloud kubernetes offerings.
        busterarm 5y ago
        My whole point is that they're not really comparable from a level of effort perspective, despite claims. Hosted Kubernetes isn't significantly easier either, as every host is offering you different things as "Kubernetes" and has different ways that you will need to manually intervene to overcome problems. I'm only telling you this from experience, being years down the rabbit hole already.
        pgwhalen 5y ago
        I also speak from experience, from an organization that has had a lot of success with kubernetes. Perhaps we're in the sweet spot where our workload is suited for it but there still isn't a huge amount of complexity in maintaining it.
  - alexhwoods 5y ago
    Agreed. I think overtime we'll just get more abstracted away from it. GKE Autopilot, for example. I think you still have to understand the lego block in your hand though, so you can combine it well with the other parts of your system.
kube-system 5y ago
Maybe so, but anyone should definitely use more criteria than my few word generalization to choose their deployment infrastructure. :) We (mostly) chose k8s over other solutions because of other tools/providers in the ecosystem that made business sense for us. But we did need something to abstract our deployment complexity. I’m mostly suggesting that I suspect many of the people with bad k8s experience didn’t really need it. I’ve seen a number of people wrap a simple application in a container, slap it in a deployment/service/ingress and call it a day, it works, but using k8s that way doesn’t really add much value.

sgarland 5y ago

Maybe, but for better or worse it's also become the industry standard, much like Terraform. If you don't know k8s and Terraform, you're shooting yourself in the foot for future jobs.

busterarm 5y ago
K8s is an enormously complex piece of software and I haven't met a great many people who "know" it inside and out. Basic concepts and how to write a job/service/ingress, sure. Knowing the internals and how to operate it? I'd say that's only for specialists. Most people don't need to know what a Finalizer is or does. Most people aren't going to write operators. It is a multi-year investment of time to deeply understand this tool and it's not necessary for everyone.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- pgwhalen 5y ago
  The same could be said for the linux kernel, and yet we still run all of our software on it.
  - busterarm 5y ago
    Except with the kernel, you only have to be familiar with the system calls and you don't need a team of people just to run, maintain and upgrade the kernel. That and it tries to make breaking changes on the timescale of decades rather than every other minor release (so, once or twice a year?).
    - pgwhalen 5y ago
      > Except with the kernel, you only have to be familiar with the system calls I think it's safe to assume that any non-trivial use of linux involves non-default configuration. > you don't need a team of people just to run, maintain and upgrade the kernel. My relatively small company employed linux admins before we adopted (on prem) kubernetes. Their work has changed a bit since since then, but it isn't meaningfully more laborious. I assume that less effort is required for cloud kubernetes offerings.
      - busterarm 5y ago
        My whole point is that they're not really comparable from a level of effort perspective, despite claims. Hosted Kubernetes isn't significantly easier either, as every host is offering you different things as "Kubernetes" and has different ways that you will need to manually intervene to overcome problems. I'm only telling you this from experience, being years down the rabbit hole already.
        pgwhalen 5y ago
        I also speak from experience, from an organization that has had a lot of success with kubernetes. Perhaps we're in the sweet spot where our workload is suited for it but there still isn't a huge amount of complexity in maintaining it.
- alexhwoods 5y ago
  Agreed. I think overtime we'll just get more abstracted away from it. GKE Autopilot, for example. I think you still have to understand the lego block in your hand though, so you can combine it well with the other parts of your system.

kube-system 5y ago

Maybe so, but anyone should definitely use more criteria than my few word generalization to choose their deployment infrastructure. :) We (mostly) chose k8s over other solutions because of other tools/providers in the ecosystem that made business sense for us. But we did need something to abstract our deployment complexity. I’m mostly suggesting that I suspect many of the people with bad k8s experience didn’t really need it. I’ve seen a number of people wrap a simple application in a container, slap it in a deployment/service/ingress and call it a day, it works, but using k8s that way doesn’t really add much value.