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MS should be concerned, because eventually people will stop trusting their products and switch over to alternatives. The erosion of civil liberties under COVID

MS should be concerned, because eventually people will stop trusting their products and switch over to alternatives. The erosion of civil liberties under COVID rules is extremely concerning. Canada is about to pass draconian laws for the purpose of monitoring and restrict Canadian's online free speech rights and jail people for 2 years, and pay 70k fine for things like saying the N word online.

Jcowell 5y ago
I sincerely doubt this and can’t envision a world moving away from Microsoft and it’s back comparability with legacy software. Not to mention the Business world and academics world dependence on Microsoft’s Business Suite (and no Google Sheets only advantage over excel is collaboration. Excel beats it every other metric and no one is moving sensitive documents from Excel over to Sheets.) Also take into account that the common person who works on Windows at work might also work at windows at home. And then there is gaming. Microsoft is not going away anytime soon. Especially with Apple’s move towards dropping 32-bit and the general consumers not adopting Linux anytime soon.
- fragileone 5y ago
  On the gaming front since Steam released Proton the future is now uncertain for Microsoft hegemony. Linux can now run AAA titles on launch, with the only significant barrier that's left being kernel-level anti-cheats. But with WINE's rapid development, cloud gaming becoming more popular (just yesterday for instance Xbox Cloud Gaming became available for Linux browsers) and VFIO becoming easier I don't expect this to be an issue still in the next few years.
  - Jcowell 5y ago
    I still doubting that regular consumers will go out of their way to buy Linux Ready Laptops/Gaming PCs (and no they’re not installing Linux on their computers) I think HN in general severely overestimates how willing to normal consumer is to use Linux over Windows and how much utility Windows has.
kimmeld 5y ago
COVID has almost nothing to do with the erosion of civil liberties in the US. That ship sailed to much applause after 9/11 and neither party has done anything to remove the powers they have. Trying to rewrite this as some sort of COVID thing is silly.
- ehayes 5y ago
  The erosion of liberties in the US started before 2020 AND it got a LOT worse under COVID. Both is true. And there's nothing silly about what's happening in Canada right now.
  - TeMPOraL 5y ago
    > The erosion of liberties in the US started before 2020 AND it got a LOT worse under COVID. Both is true. Not really. The contentious part in your claim is the "a LOT". You need to prove that it got worse under COVID in degree even remotely comparable to how it got worse after 9/11.
    - dukeofdoom 5y ago
      In Canada, the government suspended elections, locked up an opposition leader, and locked seniors in retirement homes with stupid high mortality rate. Restricted right to travel, to visit family, and now passed laws against free speech directly aimed at its critics. Also 9 churches have been burned in the last month alone. In the US riots something like 60 people died, and countless businesses and livelihoods were destroyed. I would say its a LOT.
- pokstad 5y ago
  As a result of COVID-19, Americans were forced to wear underwear on their faces, close down businesses until bankrupt, and were restricted from places of worship. Additionally, the end of COVID introduced a new class system of who is vaccinated and can have full roaming rights.
- ploxiln 5y ago
  It seems to me that more "bush did it" 9/11 conspiracy videos were allowed to stay up, than COVID-19 vaccine critical or alternate treatment discussing videos. And I think I understand why, it's because we worry less about the stuff that we think few other people believe, and more about things that we think lots of other people will believe and act on. Flat-earthers were firmly in the "who cares" category for a long time (and probably still are but I'm less sure these days). But it's unfortunate that the COVID-19 related content is now setting the precedent for what kind of speech should be scrubbed from all popular platforms and hosts, with what kind of government guidance and public pressure.
fromanator 5y ago
This specific issue has been there for years, long before covid. So not sure why you're jumping on covid being the cause here. The erosion of civil liberties specific to covid are mostly temporary emergency powers, which again aren't even at play here. Also this Microsoft press release has a lot more information in it than the Rueters article https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2021/06/30/the-need-for-legislative-reform-on-secrecy-orders/ https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2021/06/30/the-nee... "We have reviewed the number of secrecy orders that federal law enforcement agencies have presented to us from 2016 to the present, a period that spans the Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations. We found that while the number has increased some, federal law enforcement has consistently presented us with 2,400 to 3,500 secrecy orders each year, or 7-10 per day, representing one-quarter to one-third of all the legal demands we received. These are just the demands that Microsoft, just one cloud service provider, received. "
pcbro141 5y ago
Wow, I can't dehumanize black people online?! What even is the point of my gigabit fiber, then? Doesn't the government realize this will destroy 4chan? /s
- disposekinetics 5y ago
  You're abetting the destruction of free speech through while you battle strawmen.
  - jonwithoutanh 5y ago
    Canada has had laws against hate speech before c-36, this extends those laws to the internet. Canada does not have a concept of "free speech", the fuck are you talking about. Canada has a concept of freedom of expression, which has certain limits, such as Hate speech. I'm so sorry you will no longer be able to call for a genocide against a group you hold prejudices against, boo fucking hoo.
    - disposekinetics 5y ago
      Laws against hate speech are fundamentally censorious. You approve of censorship when it happens to people you dislike. You're just unprincipled. If homosexuals have their rights ignored in some far off country you must just shrug your shoulders, they don't have rights in those countries. Tilting at windmills under the delusion they are giants does not make you a fighter of giants.
machinehermiter 5y ago
I mean I can remember having this exact discussion about MS on Slashdot 20 years ago. If anything MS and Bill Gates have a vastly better public image than 20 years ago. Bill Gates has gone from the public image of a lucky fool with blue screening on national TV more than once to some kind of public intellectual that the public wants to follow. I have read about what Canada is about to do and it does seem completely insane.
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  > Bill Gates It’s amazing what a PR budget can do over twenty years.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Bill Gates has gone from the public image of a lucky fool with blue screening on national TV more than once to some kind of public intellectual that the public wants to follow. That painstakingly constructed PR success has somewhat eroded recently.

Jcowell 5y ago

I sincerely doubt this and can’t envision a world moving away from Microsoft and it’s back comparability with legacy software. Not to mention the Business world and academics world dependence on Microsoft’s Business Suite (and no Google Sheets only advantage over excel is collaboration. Excel beats it every other metric and no one is moving sensitive documents from Excel over to Sheets.) Also take into account that the common person who works on Windows at work might also work at windows at home. And then there is gaming. Microsoft is not going away anytime soon. Especially with Apple’s move towards dropping 32-bit and the general consumers not adopting Linux anytime soon.

fragileone 5y ago
On the gaming front since Steam released Proton the future is now uncertain for Microsoft hegemony. Linux can now run AAA titles on launch, with the only significant barrier that's left being kernel-level anti-cheats. But with WINE's rapid development, cloud gaming becoming more popular (just yesterday for instance Xbox Cloud Gaming became available for Linux browsers) and VFIO becoming easier I don't expect this to be an issue still in the next few years.
- Jcowell 5y ago
  I still doubting that regular consumers will go out of their way to buy Linux Ready Laptops/Gaming PCs (and no they’re not installing Linux on their computers) I think HN in general severely overestimates how willing to normal consumer is to use Linux over Windows and how much utility Windows has.

kimmeld 5y ago

COVID has almost nothing to do with the erosion of civil liberties in the US. That ship sailed to much applause after 9/11 and neither party has done anything to remove the powers they have. Trying to rewrite this as some sort of COVID thing is silly.

ehayes 5y ago
The erosion of liberties in the US started before 2020 AND it got a LOT worse under COVID. Both is true. And there's nothing silly about what's happening in Canada right now.
- TeMPOraL 5y ago
  > The erosion of liberties in the US started before 2020 AND it got a LOT worse under COVID. Both is true. Not really. The contentious part in your claim is the "a LOT". You need to prove that it got worse under COVID in degree even remotely comparable to how it got worse after 9/11.
  - dukeofdoom 5y ago
    In Canada, the government suspended elections, locked up an opposition leader, and locked seniors in retirement homes with stupid high mortality rate. Restricted right to travel, to visit family, and now passed laws against free speech directly aimed at its critics. Also 9 churches have been burned in the last month alone. In the US riots something like 60 people died, and countless businesses and livelihoods were destroyed. I would say its a LOT.
pokstad 5y ago
As a result of COVID-19, Americans were forced to wear underwear on their faces, close down businesses until bankrupt, and were restricted from places of worship. Additionally, the end of COVID introduced a new class system of who is vaccinated and can have full roaming rights.
ploxiln 5y ago
It seems to me that more "bush did it" 9/11 conspiracy videos were allowed to stay up, than COVID-19 vaccine critical or alternate treatment discussing videos. And I think I understand why, it's because we worry less about the stuff that we think few other people believe, and more about things that we think lots of other people will believe and act on. Flat-earthers were firmly in the "who cares" category for a long time (and probably still are but I'm less sure these days). But it's unfortunate that the COVID-19 related content is now setting the precedent for what kind of speech should be scrubbed from all popular platforms and hosts, with what kind of government guidance and public pressure.

fromanator 5y ago

This specific issue has been there for years, long before covid. So not sure why you're jumping on covid being the cause here. The erosion of civil liberties specific to covid are mostly temporary emergency powers, which again aren't even at play here. Also this Microsoft press release has a lot more information in it than the Rueters article https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2021/06/30/the-need-for-legislative-reform-on-secrecy-orders/ https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2021/06/30/the-nee... "We have reviewed the number of secrecy orders that federal law enforcement agencies have presented to us from 2016 to the present, a period that spans the Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations. We found that while the number has increased some, federal law enforcement has consistently presented us with 2,400 to 3,500 secrecy orders each year, or 7-10 per day, representing one-quarter to one-third of all the legal demands we received. These are just the demands that Microsoft, just one cloud service provider, received. "

pcbro141 5y ago

Wow, I can't dehumanize black people online?! What even is the point of my gigabit fiber, then? Doesn't the government realize this will destroy 4chan? /s

disposekinetics 5y ago
You're abetting the destruction of free speech through while you battle strawmen.
- jonwithoutanh 5y ago
  Canada has had laws against hate speech before c-36, this extends those laws to the internet. Canada does not have a concept of "free speech", the fuck are you talking about. Canada has a concept of freedom of expression, which has certain limits, such as Hate speech. I'm so sorry you will no longer be able to call for a genocide against a group you hold prejudices against, boo fucking hoo.
  - disposekinetics 5y ago
    Laws against hate speech are fundamentally censorious. You approve of censorship when it happens to people you dislike. You're just unprincipled. If homosexuals have their rights ignored in some far off country you must just shrug your shoulders, they don't have rights in those countries. Tilting at windmills under the delusion they are giants does not make you a fighter of giants.

machinehermiter 5y ago

I mean I can remember having this exact discussion about MS on Slashdot 20 years ago. If anything MS and Bill Gates have a vastly better public image than 20 years ago. Bill Gates has gone from the public image of a lucky fool with blue screening on national TV more than once to some kind of public intellectual that the public wants to follow. I have read about what Canada is about to do and it does seem completely insane.

ceilingcorner 5y ago
> Bill Gates It’s amazing what a PR budget can do over twenty years.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Bill Gates has gone from the public image of a lucky fool with blue screening on national TV more than once to some kind of public intellectual that the public wants to follow. That painstakingly constructed PR success has somewhat eroded recently.