4 ms·

> This is really quite a big claim, I'm not sure it's that cut and dried, personally. If you want to deny the obvious reality that's fine, but there is a huge

> This is really quite a big claim, I'm not sure it's that cut and dried, personally. If you want to deny the obvious reality that's fine, but there is a huge demand for this from plenty of non-deplorables who aren't ever going to be ok with some jackass at twitter determining what is ok to say. They showed their hand, they are willing to lie and censor and fake fact check enough true and relevant things they don't like that creating alternatives is the only path forward, however long it takes. This is not about allowing _actual_ hate speech, _actual_ harassment cyber-stalking, pedo shit, or planning violence, but if it's not one of those there is demand for a platform that shuts the fuck up about it.

Nursie 5y ago
"fake fact check" This, to me, is what's gone crazy about US politics. Facts are now considered political. Someone who is out and out spewing lies shouldn't be called on that, because my lies are as good as your facts and you're oppressing my politics if you label them that way. I wish you luck with whatever you're trying to do, but these sites are little more than right wing safe-spaces where reality can be prevented from intruding. Their own policies (whether stated or just how they are acted upon) show that this is the case, and that the free speech angle is merely lip service. (and where sites do, really, genuinely allow free speech, as mentioned before, they degenerate into places nobody normal really wants to be)
- abacadaba 5y ago
  Facts are not political, fact checking can absolutely be, and often is political. When nobody trusts the fact checkers anymore, as no intelligent person still does to any significant degree, they're not doing any good.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    All I see here are a string of assertions, nothing presented that would make me doubt the fact checkers. Especially as the ones I’ve seen also show their working. What I have seen is the people who have been fact checked mount a campaign to undermine fact checkers, and in fact undermine the idea that there are such things as facts.
    - abacadaba 5y ago
      You need to be more sympathetic to my lived reality. /s I don't have the time or energy to try to present a researched case here about this, but to millions of people the "our narrative is your truth" bs has been so thick and obvious that we just don't take most media or the fact checks based thereon seriously. I get it, it's a dangerous game, there are a lot of dumb people who will believe a lot of dumb conspiracy shit, which will inevitably 99.9% of the time devolve into some form of "the jews did it", targeting me, but that's why it's so dangerous to sacrifice all credibility pursuing some political goal.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  As an outsider I found it funny that people were so up in arms about trump lying during the campaign, when it was perfectly obvious that he was signalling to his base that he was not one of the hated insiders, not a political correct person or a democrat. The loathing of him by the establishment helped him, it didn't hinder him. As for fact checking, well with the attempts to stump out the Biden Laptop story and the ban on anybody thinking loud about the lab leak theory, we should assume that political fact checking cannot be neutral.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    I fail to see why we should assume such, and “the Biden laptop” thing turned out to be a waste of time regardless.

Nursie 5y ago

"fake fact check" This, to me, is what's gone crazy about US politics. Facts are now considered political. Someone who is out and out spewing lies shouldn't be called on that, because my lies are as good as your facts and you're oppressing my politics if you label them that way. I wish you luck with whatever you're trying to do, but these sites are little more than right wing safe-spaces where reality can be prevented from intruding. Their own policies (whether stated or just how they are acted upon) show that this is the case, and that the free speech angle is merely lip service. (and where sites do, really, genuinely allow free speech, as mentioned before, they degenerate into places nobody normal really wants to be)

abacadaba 5y ago
Facts are not political, fact checking can absolutely be, and often is political. When nobody trusts the fact checkers anymore, as no intelligent person still does to any significant degree, they're not doing any good.
- Nursie 5y ago
  All I see here are a string of assertions, nothing presented that would make me doubt the fact checkers. Especially as the ones I’ve seen also show their working. What I have seen is the people who have been fact checked mount a campaign to undermine fact checkers, and in fact undermine the idea that there are such things as facts.
  - abacadaba 5y ago
    You need to be more sympathetic to my lived reality. /s I don't have the time or energy to try to present a researched case here about this, but to millions of people the "our narrative is your truth" bs has been so thick and obvious that we just don't take most media or the fact checks based thereon seriously. I get it, it's a dangerous game, there are a lot of dumb people who will believe a lot of dumb conspiracy shit, which will inevitably 99.9% of the time devolve into some form of "the jews did it", targeting me, but that's why it's so dangerous to sacrifice all credibility pursuing some political goal.
tomjen3 5y ago
As an outsider I found it funny that people were so up in arms about trump lying during the campaign, when it was perfectly obvious that he was signalling to his base that he was not one of the hated insiders, not a political correct person or a democrat. The loathing of him by the establishment helped him, it didn't hinder him. As for fact checking, well with the attempts to stump out the Biden Laptop story and the ban on anybody thinking loud about the lab leak theory, we should assume that political fact checking cannot be neutral.
- Nursie 5y ago
  I fail to see why we should assume such, and “the Biden laptop” thing turned out to be a waste of time regardless.