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It amazes me that people freak out when they see "Muslim-looking" people on flights. The politically-correct response is along the lines of "OMG That is highly

It amazes me that people freak out when they see "Muslim-looking" people on flights. The politically-correct response is along the lines of "OMG That is highly prejudicial!", but that's irrelevant. From a purely practical perspective, why would a terrorist leader send an attacker whom many Americans immediately view as "suspicious", when he could send someone who appears more "normal"? On another note, people these days still puff out their chests and say the terrorists couldn't change our way of life. Good one. Another fallacious line of reasoning is that we can destroy terrorism by military action alone. Tell that to the teenage boy who just lost his family to an errant US bomb in his Afghan village and now has a massive amount of pent up rage, and nothing to lose. If the conditions are right, terrorism can always regenerate itself. The way to fight it is to alter the conditions. To do this we must understand why people hate America. Contrary to popular belief, it's not that we are secular or free. Osama bin Laden himself asked that if he wanted to attack secular, democratic states, why didn't he attack Sweden? I'm obviously not condoning terrorism, but the key to beating it is understanding it on at least a basic level. Unfortunately, our leaders in the past 10 years have been more inclined to drop bombs than to know the enemy. edit: I'm not saying military action is inappropriate. It clearly has been effective in many cases.

rick888 15y ago
yeah, well, 9/11 still happened with people that didn't appear "normal". "The way to fight it is to alter the conditions. To do this we must understand why people hate America." We should bend over backwards to make the terrorists happy so they don't attack us? What if they hate us because we aren't part of their religion..is the answer to make the US a Muslim country? Negotiating with terrorists that clearly aren't interested in negotiating is not what we should be doing here.
- Tharkun 15y ago
  Nice flamebait. I'll resist the urge to resort to profanities. You seem to be very much stuck in an "us" and "them" mindset. You also seem to be missing several things. No one said anything about bending over backwards. As for negotiating, who exactly is there to negotiate with in the first place? You seem to be under the mistaken impression that there's some kind of top secret terrorist government hiding somewhere, and that "they" are secretly hatching evil plots to destroy "America". (Because apparently America is the only country that's ever been targetted by terrorists? Get over yourself.) And who suggested making the US a "Muslim country"? The very notion is ridiculous. The US claims to be a "free" country after all, with freedom of religion. There's nothing stopping Muslims from worshipping Allah as much as they please in the US. Nor should there be. And there sure as hell shouldn't be anything to stop "them" from getting on planes, looking at their watches, praying, growing big beards or walking around in whatever outfits they damn well please.
  - rick888 15y ago
    "Nice flamebait. I'll resist the urge to resort to profanities." Nice way to get out of a discussion. "As for negotiating, who exactly is there to negotiate with in the first place?" You said we should try to figure out why they are angry with us..as if it's the fault of the US for getting attacked (blaming the victim). "You seem to be under the mistaken impression that there's some kind of top secret terrorist government hiding somewhere, and that "they" are secretly hatching evil plots to destroy "America". (Because apparently America is the only country that's ever been targetted by terrorists? Get over yourself.)" Nice flamebait. In Many other countries, they have full-on profiling with armed guards on each plane. It seems to work pretty well on the middle east. "There's nothing stopping Muslims from worshipping Allah as much as they please in the US. Nor should there be. And there sure as hell shouldn't be anything to stop "them" from getting on planes, looking at their watches, praying, growing big beards or walking around in whatever outfits they damn well please." I never said they shouldn't be stopped. However, if there are a high number of attempted attacks and the description of the attackers match the type of people coming onto the plain, the TSA should be allowed to question/detain those people. It's this type of thinking that stops a newspaper from putting a description of a criminal because it's not politically correct.
- cema 15y ago
  9/11 still happened with people that didn't appear "normal" Actually, they did appear normal. USA is a very multinational country, and these guys would not look much different from the rest of the passengers. Especially in international airports of large cities of the Eastern shore where they boarded the planes. (Mohammed Atta could be an exception. Not by the looks, but by his facial expression. I believe I saw him with a few of his co-conspirators several months before 9/11, and he did stand out.)
- kstenerud 15y ago
  There are two kinds of terrorists: The desperate and the insane. A life of terrorism is very unstable, and usually quite brutal and short. The desperate join up because the only other alternative is rolling over and either dying or becoming enslaved in some way. Theirs is a rational choice. The insane are men who crave power to such a degree that there is little they won't do to secure it, but in order to succeed they need numbers. That's where the desperate come in. People prefer order to chaos. Order brings prosperity and security. But when there's no hope of prosperity or security, people start to look for ways to change the political landscape to improve their chances of surviving as a group. The closer they feel they are to having their lives or culture or way of life annihilated, the more desperate they become. (It's worth noting that you can manufacture greater desperation in the minds of people around a kernel of real desperation, which makes for an effective recruiting tactic, especially among the religious) If you want to stop terrorism, you must work to end the source of their desperation. Once you remove (or diminish) the desperate from the equation, the insane will neither be able to form numbers of any notability, nor secure the goodwill of others. They will be treated as they are: criminally insane.
  - wisty 15y ago
    Studies by Israelis (who have tonnes of captured Pakistani terrorists) have shown terrorists are often from well-off backgrounds (but from a poor country), and otherwise "good" people (empathic, sense of social responsibility, etc). If your country is poor, and you happen to be from a privileged background, you might feel the need to give something back. If your community believes that "martyrs" are good, then terrorism is an option. And yes, they do tend to be 20-year-old males. Others can be poor, and unlikely to be able to get a girlfriend or wife. Its not about desperate individuals, but a desperate community. The communities are often desperate because of poor governance, but you can't unilaterally bring good governance to the Middle East (or any other region). Actually, there's a lot of reasons why communities are desperate. But a lot of those are hard problems, which are taking time to solve.
    - rjbond3rd 15y ago
      Why would Israelis have any Pakistani terrorists? Is this a conspiracy theory?
Tharkun 15y ago
Military action is part of the "let's pretend we're doing something useful"-strategy. Dropping bombs and sending soldiers is MUCH easier than trying to tackle the very complex social problems that drive people to blow themselves up. I'm not claiming I know the root cause of the problem, but terrorism does seem to be connected with poverty and oppressive governments. Blowing yourself up is obviously a last and desperate & futile resort. At the end of the day, we're all human, and we're all more or less equal in what we're capable of and in what we want. We all want a bit of happiness for ourselves and our loved ones. And I dare say that happy people don't blow themselves up.
- Bud 15y ago
  Can we please not be mushy-headed and pretend that the reason that we chose military "solutions" is because they are somehow easier? It's actually quite complex to invade several poorly-chosen nations, spending trillions in the process, stay in those nations for twice the duration of WWII, and manage to justify all of these misadventures to the public well enough to get away with it. We didn't choose this path because it was easier. This path was chosen because we elected an Administration which had immense political and financial motivation to find excuses to make war, as often as possible for as long as possible, regardless of the alleged reasons. For my money, it would actually be much simpler (and obviously more efficient and fruitful) to solve the admittedly complex problems surrounding what causes folks to want to become terrorists.
cema 15y ago
It amazes me that people freak out when they see "Muslim-looking" people on flights. I may not be flying often enough, but I am flying both in the USA and International, and I have never seen this happening. (Maybe someone was freaking out quietly and I have not noticed.) Is this your experience, or are you extrapolating from what you have read about it?
- bronson 15y ago
  First sentence in the article: passengers refused to fly with two Arab-looking men looking at their watches.
  - cema 15y ago
    So, extrapolating?

rick888 15y ago

yeah, well, 9/11 still happened with people that didn't appear "normal". "The way to fight it is to alter the conditions. To do this we must understand why people hate America." We should bend over backwards to make the terrorists happy so they don't attack us? What if they hate us because we aren't part of their religion..is the answer to make the US a Muslim country? Negotiating with terrorists that clearly aren't interested in negotiating is not what we should be doing here.

Tharkun 15y ago
Nice flamebait. I'll resist the urge to resort to profanities. You seem to be very much stuck in an "us" and "them" mindset. You also seem to be missing several things. No one said anything about bending over backwards. As for negotiating, who exactly is there to negotiate with in the first place? You seem to be under the mistaken impression that there's some kind of top secret terrorist government hiding somewhere, and that "they" are secretly hatching evil plots to destroy "America". (Because apparently America is the only country that's ever been targetted by terrorists? Get over yourself.) And who suggested making the US a "Muslim country"? The very notion is ridiculous. The US claims to be a "free" country after all, with freedom of religion. There's nothing stopping Muslims from worshipping Allah as much as they please in the US. Nor should there be. And there sure as hell shouldn't be anything to stop "them" from getting on planes, looking at their watches, praying, growing big beards or walking around in whatever outfits they damn well please.
- rick888 15y ago
  "Nice flamebait. I'll resist the urge to resort to profanities." Nice way to get out of a discussion. "As for negotiating, who exactly is there to negotiate with in the first place?" You said we should try to figure out why they are angry with us..as if it's the fault of the US for getting attacked (blaming the victim). "You seem to be under the mistaken impression that there's some kind of top secret terrorist government hiding somewhere, and that "they" are secretly hatching evil plots to destroy "America". (Because apparently America is the only country that's ever been targetted by terrorists? Get over yourself.)" Nice flamebait. In Many other countries, they have full-on profiling with armed guards on each plane. It seems to work pretty well on the middle east. "There's nothing stopping Muslims from worshipping Allah as much as they please in the US. Nor should there be. And there sure as hell shouldn't be anything to stop "them" from getting on planes, looking at their watches, praying, growing big beards or walking around in whatever outfits they damn well please." I never said they shouldn't be stopped. However, if there are a high number of attempted attacks and the description of the attackers match the type of people coming onto the plain, the TSA should be allowed to question/detain those people. It's this type of thinking that stops a newspaper from putting a description of a criminal because it's not politically correct.
cema 15y ago
9/11 still happened with people that didn't appear "normal" Actually, they did appear normal. USA is a very multinational country, and these guys would not look much different from the rest of the passengers. Especially in international airports of large cities of the Eastern shore where they boarded the planes. (Mohammed Atta could be an exception. Not by the looks, but by his facial expression. I believe I saw him with a few of his co-conspirators several months before 9/11, and he did stand out.)
kstenerud 15y ago
There are two kinds of terrorists: The desperate and the insane. A life of terrorism is very unstable, and usually quite brutal and short. The desperate join up because the only other alternative is rolling over and either dying or becoming enslaved in some way. Theirs is a rational choice. The insane are men who crave power to such a degree that there is little they won't do to secure it, but in order to succeed they need numbers. That's where the desperate come in. People prefer order to chaos. Order brings prosperity and security. But when there's no hope of prosperity or security, people start to look for ways to change the political landscape to improve their chances of surviving as a group. The closer they feel they are to having their lives or culture or way of life annihilated, the more desperate they become. (It's worth noting that you can manufacture greater desperation in the minds of people around a kernel of real desperation, which makes for an effective recruiting tactic, especially among the religious) If you want to stop terrorism, you must work to end the source of their desperation. Once you remove (or diminish) the desperate from the equation, the insane will neither be able to form numbers of any notability, nor secure the goodwill of others. They will be treated as they are: criminally insane.
- wisty 15y ago
  Studies by Israelis (who have tonnes of captured Pakistani terrorists) have shown terrorists are often from well-off backgrounds (but from a poor country), and otherwise "good" people (empathic, sense of social responsibility, etc). If your country is poor, and you happen to be from a privileged background, you might feel the need to give something back. If your community believes that "martyrs" are good, then terrorism is an option. And yes, they do tend to be 20-year-old males. Others can be poor, and unlikely to be able to get a girlfriend or wife. Its not about desperate individuals, but a desperate community. The communities are often desperate because of poor governance, but you can't unilaterally bring good governance to the Middle East (or any other region). Actually, there's a lot of reasons why communities are desperate. But a lot of those are hard problems, which are taking time to solve.
  - rjbond3rd 15y ago
    Why would Israelis have any Pakistani terrorists? Is this a conspiracy theory?

Tharkun 15y ago

Military action is part of the "let's pretend we're doing something useful"-strategy. Dropping bombs and sending soldiers is MUCH easier than trying to tackle the very complex social problems that drive people to blow themselves up. I'm not claiming I know the root cause of the problem, but terrorism does seem to be connected with poverty and oppressive governments. Blowing yourself up is obviously a last and desperate & futile resort. At the end of the day, we're all human, and we're all more or less equal in what we're capable of and in what we want. We all want a bit of happiness for ourselves and our loved ones. And I dare say that happy people don't blow themselves up.

Bud 15y ago
Can we please not be mushy-headed and pretend that the reason that we chose military "solutions" is because they are somehow easier? It's actually quite complex to invade several poorly-chosen nations, spending trillions in the process, stay in those nations for twice the duration of WWII, and manage to justify all of these misadventures to the public well enough to get away with it. We didn't choose this path because it was easier. This path was chosen because we elected an Administration which had immense political and financial motivation to find excuses to make war, as often as possible for as long as possible, regardless of the alleged reasons. For my money, it would actually be much simpler (and obviously more efficient and fruitful) to solve the admittedly complex problems surrounding what causes folks to want to become terrorists.

cema 15y ago

It amazes me that people freak out when they see "Muslim-looking" people on flights. I may not be flying often enough, but I am flying both in the USA and International, and I have never seen this happening. (Maybe someone was freaking out quietly and I have not noticed.) Is this your experience, or are you extrapolating from what you have read about it?

bronson 15y ago
First sentence in the article: passengers refused to fly with two Arab-looking men looking at their watches.
- cema 15y ago
  So, extrapolating?