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> Twitter is politically hostile to an entire wing of politics This is really quite a big claim, I'm not sure it's that cut and dried, personally. But then I

by Nursie 5y ago

> Twitter is politically hostile to an entire wing of politics This is really quite a big claim, I'm not sure it's that cut and dried, personally. But then I don't tweet or care to read other people's tweets anyway. I think the whole thing is overblown and representative only of a few noisy minorities in the first place.

Covzire 5y ago
Here's a little experiment anyone can do to test this. Click any tweet from a prominent Republican politician. If the tweet is new, especially very new, the replies will be relatively supportive/agreeing with the politician. Within moments/minutes, anti-Republican messages will dominate the replies something like 95 to 1 and the first few replies will almost certainly be extremely rude, crude and emotionally vitriolic. The opposite happens to Democrat politicians, "thoughtful and sane" echoing replies are boosted to the top. Twitter gaslights conservatives and anti-gaslights the left. I saw this happen for the first time in real time when Trump first expressed his outrage when Twitter first amended his tweet that set off the whole S230 discussion. The first 5 minutes were nothing and I mean nothing but supportive tweets. After about 5 minutes, almost all the replies that were visible at the top were vitriolic and expressing anti-Trump views. Since then, I've been spotting this pattern everywhere, just not in real time. I think what probably happened is that the censors at twitter were scared of applying their gaslighting in light of Trump's threats, but that's just a guess. It's extremely obvious to me though that Twitter is purposely gaslighting conservatives by editorializing which anti-Republican replies get the most visibility.
- Nursie 5y ago
  That's twitter users, not the platform itself. I don't see any "free speech" alternative being any different. In fact presumably such mobbing would be more prevalent and more vitriolic there, as there would be no standards of content or behaviour. What you're asking for there is a republican safe space that suppresses dissent, not free speech.
  - leereeves 5y ago
    I would agree that the group of people who spend tons of time on social media tends to lean left, but it doesn't help that the platforms are actively driving away non-leftists. In other words, it's hardly surprising that the user base of Twitter leans left. (For example, when they suspended Jason Whitlock for tweeting "Black Lives Matter founder buys $1.4 million home in Topanga, which has a black population of 1.4%. She's with her people!".)
    - Nursie 5y ago
      How are they actively driving away non-leftists?
- viraptor 5y ago
  And yet, the anti-democratic spam became a meme https://mobile.twitter.com/its_menieb/status/1411831790331912192 https://mobile.twitter.com/its_menieb/status/141183179033191... Looking through the recent Biden's posts, I don't see the opposite effect you mention. There's lots of criticism at the top.
  - Covzire 5y ago
    When I click that Biden tweet, 8 out of the first 10 replies on my timeline are supportive, 1 questions vaccine safety and one is the meme you showed. For a prominent Republican that would be an amazing ratio of the first 10 replies especially if the tweet was older and has a lot of likes or retweets.
    - Nursie 5y ago
      So? That's free speech, don't you like free speech?
    - viraptor 5y ago
      That's not even close to what I see. The top for me contains 4 "this person got a reaction after the shot, are you going to pay for their costs?" tweets and other not-quite-positive messages. Maybe check the comparison again while logged out?
      - Covzire 5y ago
        In a private window for me it's 9 out of 10 supportive replies. Edit: Conversely here is one of the house minority leader's most recent tweets celebrating the 4th:https://twitter.com/LeaderMcConnell/status/1411656038793814025?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw https://twitter.com/LeaderMcConnell/status/14116560387938140... 8 out of the first 10 replies for me are anti-Republican talking points and anti-McConnell memes. The replies / discussion on every politician is clearly astro-turfed to create a specific narrative that always flows one direction. The house minority leader can't even celebrate the 4th without getting a lot of hateful replies and gaslighting in that anti- replies are boosted even if they have no or few likes or retweets.
Anon1096 5y ago
Regardless of whether it's true, enough people perceive it to be true to where this social network got half a million sign-ups, and Parler had a few million itself. And when trying to siphon users to your new social network, perception is really all that matters.
abacadaba 5y ago
> This is really quite a big claim, I'm not sure it's that cut and dried, personally. If you want to deny the obvious reality that's fine, but there is a huge demand for this from plenty of non-deplorables who aren't ever going to be ok with some jackass at twitter determining what is ok to say. They showed their hand, they are willing to lie and censor and fake fact check enough true and relevant things they don't like that creating alternatives is the only path forward, however long it takes. This is not about allowing _actual_ hate speech, _actual_ harassment cyber-stalking, pedo shit, or planning violence, but if it's not one of those there is demand for a platform that shuts the fuck up about it.
- Nursie 5y ago
  "fake fact check" This, to me, is what's gone crazy about US politics. Facts are now considered political. Someone who is out and out spewing lies shouldn't be called on that, because my lies are as good as your facts and you're oppressing my politics if you label them that way. I wish you luck with whatever you're trying to do, but these sites are little more than right wing safe-spaces where reality can be prevented from intruding. Their own policies (whether stated or just how they are acted upon) show that this is the case, and that the free speech angle is merely lip service. (and where sites do, really, genuinely allow free speech, as mentioned before, they degenerate into places nobody normal really wants to be)
  - abacadaba 5y ago
    Facts are not political, fact checking can absolutely be, and often is political. When nobody trusts the fact checkers anymore, as no intelligent person still does to any significant degree, they're not doing any good.
    - Nursie 5y ago
      All I see here are a string of assertions, nothing presented that would make me doubt the fact checkers. Especially as the ones I’ve seen also show their working. What I have seen is the people who have been fact checked mount a campaign to undermine fact checkers, and in fact undermine the idea that there are such things as facts.

by Nursie 5y ago

Covzire 5y ago

Here's a little experiment anyone can do to test this. Click any tweet from a prominent Republican politician. If the tweet is new, especially very new, the replies will be relatively supportive/agreeing with the politician. Within moments/minutes, anti-Republican messages will dominate the replies something like 95 to 1 and the first few replies will almost certainly be extremely rude, crude and emotionally vitriolic. The opposite happens to Democrat politicians, "thoughtful and sane" echoing replies are boosted to the top. Twitter gaslights conservatives and anti-gaslights the left. I saw this happen for the first time in real time when Trump first expressed his outrage when Twitter first amended his tweet that set off the whole S230 discussion. The first 5 minutes were nothing and I mean nothing but supportive tweets. After about 5 minutes, almost all the replies that were visible at the top were vitriolic and expressing anti-Trump views. Since then, I've been spotting this pattern everywhere, just not in real time. I think what probably happened is that the censors at twitter were scared of applying their gaslighting in light of Trump's threats, but that's just a guess. It's extremely obvious to me though that Twitter is purposely gaslighting conservatives by editorializing which anti-Republican replies get the most visibility.

Nursie 5y ago
That's twitter users, not the platform itself. I don't see any "free speech" alternative being any different. In fact presumably such mobbing would be more prevalent and more vitriolic there, as there would be no standards of content or behaviour. What you're asking for there is a republican safe space that suppresses dissent, not free speech.
- leereeves 5y ago
  I would agree that the group of people who spend tons of time on social media tends to lean left, but it doesn't help that the platforms are actively driving away non-leftists. In other words, it's hardly surprising that the user base of Twitter leans left. (For example, when they suspended Jason Whitlock for tweeting "Black Lives Matter founder buys $1.4 million home in Topanga, which has a black population of 1.4%. She's with her people!".)
  - Nursie 5y ago
    How are they actively driving away non-leftists?
viraptor 5y ago
And yet, the anti-democratic spam became a meme https://mobile.twitter.com/its_menieb/status/1411831790331912192 https://mobile.twitter.com/its_menieb/status/141183179033191... Looking through the recent Biden's posts, I don't see the opposite effect you mention. There's lots of criticism at the top.
- Covzire 5y ago
  When I click that Biden tweet, 8 out of the first 10 replies on my timeline are supportive, 1 questions vaccine safety and one is the meme you showed. For a prominent Republican that would be an amazing ratio of the first 10 replies especially if the tweet was older and has a lot of likes or retweets.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    So? That's free speech, don't you like free speech?
  - viraptor 5y ago
    That's not even close to what I see. The top for me contains 4 "this person got a reaction after the shot, are you going to pay for their costs?" tweets and other not-quite-positive messages. Maybe check the comparison again while logged out?
    - Covzire 5y ago
      In a private window for me it's 9 out of 10 supportive replies. Edit: Conversely here is one of the house minority leader's most recent tweets celebrating the 4th:https://twitter.com/LeaderMcConnell/status/1411656038793814025?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw https://twitter.com/LeaderMcConnell/status/14116560387938140... 8 out of the first 10 replies for me are anti-Republican talking points and anti-McConnell memes. The replies / discussion on every politician is clearly astro-turfed to create a specific narrative that always flows one direction. The house minority leader can't even celebrate the 4th without getting a lot of hateful replies and gaslighting in that anti- replies are boosted even if they have no or few likes or retweets.

Anon1096 5y ago

Regardless of whether it's true, enough people perceive it to be true to where this social network got half a million sign-ups, and Parler had a few million itself. And when trying to siphon users to your new social network, perception is really all that matters.

abacadaba 5y ago

> This is really quite a big claim, I'm not sure it's that cut and dried, personally. If you want to deny the obvious reality that's fine, but there is a huge demand for this from plenty of non-deplorables who aren't ever going to be ok with some jackass at twitter determining what is ok to say. They showed their hand, they are willing to lie and censor and fake fact check enough true and relevant things they don't like that creating alternatives is the only path forward, however long it takes. This is not about allowing _actual_ hate speech, _actual_ harassment cyber-stalking, pedo shit, or planning violence, but if it's not one of those there is demand for a platform that shuts the fuck up about it.

Nursie 5y ago
"fake fact check" This, to me, is what's gone crazy about US politics. Facts are now considered political. Someone who is out and out spewing lies shouldn't be called on that, because my lies are as good as your facts and you're oppressing my politics if you label them that way. I wish you luck with whatever you're trying to do, but these sites are little more than right wing safe-spaces where reality can be prevented from intruding. Their own policies (whether stated or just how they are acted upon) show that this is the case, and that the free speech angle is merely lip service. (and where sites do, really, genuinely allow free speech, as mentioned before, they degenerate into places nobody normal really wants to be)
- abacadaba 5y ago
  Facts are not political, fact checking can absolutely be, and often is political. When nobody trusts the fact checkers anymore, as no intelligent person still does to any significant degree, they're not doing any good.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    All I see here are a string of assertions, nothing presented that would make me doubt the fact checkers. Especially as the ones I’ve seen also show their working. What I have seen is the people who have been fact checked mount a campaign to undermine fact checkers, and in fact undermine the idea that there are such things as facts.