4 ms·

One thing. What happens to the power grid, if power needs double? Certainly, new power plant construction, even if green, will be financed by additional cost

One thing. What happens to the power grid, if power needs double? Certainly, new power plant construction, even if green, will be financed by additional cost to the consumer.

ZeroGravitas 5y ago
In the UK the grid has published a few white papers on this, and even had to issue corrections because newspapers keep misinterpreting what they say. Summary, no big deal and in fact smart EV charging tech can actively help the grid and make it easier to use all the cheap power we generate.
- bbarnett 5y ago
  In Ontario, 6 successive government of all political stripes, one after another did nothing, leaving the grid burning coal and ng. Plants planned and canceled, one mess up after another, again all political parties the same mess. It is indeed easy, until it is time to execute. And it takes a decade at least, with zoning, environmental checks, just to get a plan planned and construction off the ground. This means that everyone should already have new plants in the planning stages. Not a report, but buying land, regulation hurdles, and when state owned, approved. Does the UK already have 3 or 4 new plants in these initial stages? And if so, how many may fall through?
  - kieranmaine 5y ago
    The UK has 5 wind farms under construction with a capacity of 5125 MW and 4 proposed wind farms with a capacity of 5454 MW (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_offshore_wind_farms_in_the_United_Kingdom#Wind_farms_under_construction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_offshore_wind_farms_in...). There has also been an increase in solar farm applications (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jun/28/solar-farm-proposals-for-east-of-england-more-than-double https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jun/28/solar-farm-...). On the flipside a number of UK nuclear plants are reaching EOL with only 1 currently under construction.
    - bbarnett 5y ago
      I think a nuclear plant decommissioning was the start of Ontario's problems. I hope yours go better, but each government blamed the prior, yet helpfully fixed nothing. Democracy is the way to go, yet sucks for long term projects. Especially expensive ones. The currwnt government gets all the complaints (new taxes or debt), someone else gets the reward.
kieranmaine 5y ago
The UK's national grid predicts that an overnight switch to EVs would only increase demand by "around 10 per cent" (https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/5-m...). On the other hand the low-voltage network may need to be upgraded to cope with the increased energy demand. Here smart charging can reduce the load, and associated costs, for a number of years (https://www.kaluza.com/blog-busting-the-myth-ev-smart-charging-and-secondary-peaks/ https://www.kaluza.com/blog-busting-the-myth-ev-smart-chargi...). Assuming that the intially purchase price of EVs reach parity with ICE vehicles, the consumer should save money, in an EV only world IF the consumer is able to use smart charging to take advantage of fluctuations in energy prices. In addition to this Vehicle-to-Grid (V2G) technology (that allows the consumer to sell energy to the grid during times of high demand + low generation) will generate income (https://www.edie.net/news/8/-World-s-largest--V2G-trial-finds-that-motorists-could-cut--725-off-monthly-electricity-bills/ https://www.edie.net/news/8/-World-s-largest--V2G-trial-find...) further increasing the affordability of EVs in comparison to hydrogen vehicles.

One thing. What happens to the power grid, if power needs double? Certainly, new power plant construction, even if green, will be financed by additional cost to the consumer.

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

In the UK the grid has published a few white papers on this, and even had to issue corrections because newspapers keep misinterpreting what they say. Summary, no big deal and in fact smart EV charging tech can actively help the grid and make it easier to use all the cheap power we generate.

bbarnett 5y ago
In Ontario, 6 successive government of all political stripes, one after another did nothing, leaving the grid burning coal and ng. Plants planned and canceled, one mess up after another, again all political parties the same mess. It is indeed easy, until it is time to execute. And it takes a decade at least, with zoning, environmental checks, just to get a plan planned and construction off the ground. This means that everyone should already have new plants in the planning stages. Not a report, but buying land, regulation hurdles, and when state owned, approved. Does the UK already have 3 or 4 new plants in these initial stages? And if so, how many may fall through?
- kieranmaine 5y ago
  The UK has 5 wind farms under construction with a capacity of 5125 MW and 4 proposed wind farms with a capacity of 5454 MW (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_offshore_wind_farms_in_the_United_Kingdom#Wind_farms_under_construction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_offshore_wind_farms_in...). There has also been an increase in solar farm applications (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jun/28/solar-farm-proposals-for-east-of-england-more-than-double https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jun/28/solar-farm-...). On the flipside a number of UK nuclear plants are reaching EOL with only 1 currently under construction.
  - bbarnett 5y ago
    I think a nuclear plant decommissioning was the start of Ontario's problems. I hope yours go better, but each government blamed the prior, yet helpfully fixed nothing. Democracy is the way to go, yet sucks for long term projects. Especially expensive ones. The currwnt government gets all the complaints (new taxes or debt), someone else gets the reward.

kieranmaine 5y ago

The UK's national grid predicts that an overnight switch to EVs would only increase demand by "around 10 per cent" (https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/5-m...). On the other hand the low-voltage network may need to be upgraded to cope with the increased energy demand. Here smart charging can reduce the load, and associated costs, for a number of years (https://www.kaluza.com/blog-busting-the-myth-ev-smart-charging-and-secondary-peaks/ https://www.kaluza.com/blog-busting-the-myth-ev-smart-chargi...). Assuming that the intially purchase price of EVs reach parity with ICE vehicles, the consumer should save money, in an EV only world IF the consumer is able to use smart charging to take advantage of fluctuations in energy prices. In addition to this Vehicle-to-Grid (V2G) technology (that allows the consumer to sell energy to the grid during times of high demand + low generation) will generate income (https://www.edie.net/news/8/-World-s-largest--V2G-trial-finds-that-motorists-could-cut--725-off-monthly-electricity-bills/ https://www.edie.net/news/8/-World-s-largest--V2G-trial-find...) further increasing the affordability of EVs in comparison to hydrogen vehicles.