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For passenger vehicle road trips charging time is already into "doesn't matter" territory for a number of models. I have taken a 1000 km+ trip in a BEV that I

For passenger vehicle road trips charging time is already into "doesn't matter" territory for a number of models. I have taken a 1000 km+ trip in a BEV that I used to take in gas vehicles. We didn't have to stop more often or stay any longer than we would have with gasoline. Really think about the time you spend stationary when stopping for fuel on a road trip. It's not just pumping fuel, you also go to the bathroom, get some food, and stretch your legs. Extremely fast charging a Tesla trick, Hyundai Ionic 5 (starting around 45K before incentives) can charge 10-80% in 18 minutes, which is enough to travel around 330 km. That's roughly 3 hours of driving in most counties. I could see hydrogen making sense for fleets with local operation that need to be operated nearly 24x7, like the support vehicles at an airport, city busses, and taxis in cities with strong night life. It also makes sense for heavy industry. Doesn't make sense for passenger vehicles; the cost of batteries has crashed too far and the power grid is way too ubiquitous.

aidenn0 5y ago
It definitely takes longer west of the Mississippi river in the US. Mountains with 80MPH (130 km/h) speed limits mean the range is far shorter than typical freeway diving, which makes the fact that you need to stop more often, and for longer (gas cars have a typical 330 mile range, 1 l.6 longer than that Ionic), really add up. [edit] I will soon be diving 1600km. Google suggests the route will take 14h. I expect to make it in 15. Friends with Teslas suggest it would take nearly 20.
- wazoox 5y ago
  Driving at the fastest allowed speed for long duration isn't a good bet with BEV. Usually you'll get shorter trip time by driving at 110km/h and skipping a charge.
  - theluketaylor 5y ago
    It depends on the charge curve for the car. For the fastest charging cars it's better to keep the battery in the bottom half (where it charges faster) and charge more often in very short stints.
- donkeyd 5y ago
  > I will soon be diving 1600km. Google suggests the route will take 14h. I expect to make it in 15. Friends with Teslas suggest it would take nearly 20. Google doesn't account for stops required for toilet breaks, eating and drinking. Of course, you can just not drink, so you don't have to pee. You can eat while driving even though that's isn't a good idea from a safety standpoint. You can skip taking any breaks and get tired, which is also a bad idea from a safety standpoint. It also depends on the available charging infrastructure, of which I have no clue at your destination. In my own experience with driving about 1200 km with regular breaks, it took about an hour longer than it did with my diesel. It just took more planning. Most times, a charging stop meant peeing, drinking a coffee and then the car would be finished charging. The biggest issue was that some chargers aren't near a rest stop.
- theluketaylor 5y ago
  1600 km in 15 hr is borderline irresponsible driving. Depending on speed limits as there simply isn't enough rest time to ensure you are focused on driving. The EV cannonball record was set this winter in a Porsche Taycan at 44 hrs 26 minutes and that included some charger trouble and much less than ideal temperatures. Google's estimate for that route is 42 hours without any stops of any kind. Here is a route plan for Lincoln, NB to Las Vegas NV. 1989 km with 17:43 driving and 2:29 charging for just over 20 hours total. That's an extra 400 km covered from your rough estimate and includes going up and over some pretty serious mountains. https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=71dfd1e1-a134-46c0-a3c6-32469e198b25 https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=71dfd1e1-a134-46c...
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    > 1600 km in 15 hr is borderline irresponsible driving. Depending on speed limits as there simply isn't enough rest time to ensure you are focused on driving. 2 drivers.
jackthezipper 5y ago
>Extremely fast charging [...] can charge 10-80% in 18 minutes, which is enough to travel around 330 km. That's roughly 3 hours of driving in most counties. This is not very impressive, and exactly where I see hydrogen have the upper hand. I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but _having_ to stop for 20 minutes every 3 hours isn't ideal at all for me.
- iamthemonster 5y ago
  Bloody hell, how much non-stop driving are you doing? If you're driving a solid 12 hours a day, that is only three 18-minute breaks, one of which is your lunch break.
  - jackthezipper 5y ago
    >that is only three 18-minute breaks Those are three _mandatory_ breaks, that add up to almost an hour, in ideal circumstances. To answer your question, not a whole lot, but in that 1% 6 hour drives aren't uncommon at all.
    - nickik 5y ago
      You are the outlier of the outlier. And if you plan it well, EV charge actually faster in the lower 50%. So if you really want to optimize you can actually do it with shorter 10 min stops. Check out Kyle from inside EV. And until you can seriously deploy Hydrogen vehicles, it would be a few years down the road. Until then the next generation of battery an charging will be significantly faster already. Practically speaking most people simply don't drive like that, people need to eat, pie and so on. With an EV you simply stop at a charger do all the things and go back. That usually takes 10ish minutes. And to be honest, every road trip with at least on other person usually means a break every 3h anyway. And even more in a day to day application, most people charge over night, so never having to go to a station and having a short break every few hours is vastly preferable to having to constantly go to the hydrogen station. Of course hydrogen would also be significantly more expensive. All in all, it simply doesn't make practical sense to optimize everything for this one specific thing.
dng88 5y ago
Total agreed. It is a surprise that this niche product came back to confuse us customers. Why? Electricity at home and work shared EV ... hydrogen meant going back to gas station. We can stop at place we like to rest and stretch our legs if the rest. and park have these chargers, not gas station ...
GordonS 5y ago
> We didn't have to stop more often or stay any longer than we would have with gasoline. A serious question from someone who knows little about electric cars, and who still thought it would take anywhere between 30-240 minutes to charge, depending on charger type - can electric cars really now charge faster than the < 180 seconds I'd spend refilling with petrol/diesel? If so, I think the industry needs to make more noise about this, to make it more know.
- garyrichardson 5y ago
  I own the 400km range model 3. I can tell you that you’re comparing apples and oranges. Over the course of the 50 weeks of a year that I don’t take it on long trips I spend 0 seconds waiting for a charge. I plug it in at night and it’s always full in the morning. A typical errand running day for me is 200+ km and I have more than enough range for that. The one or two times I take it on a road trip I usually time it with pee breaks and filling my self with coffee. Net/net I spend less time over all waiting to refuel my car. Yes, of course this depends on me having a place to plug it in at night.
- theluketaylor 5y ago
  I'm talking about total stop time. Pumping gas is an active task you have to be present for whereas charging isn't. I roll into a charger and plug in, then immediately head to the bathroom. Grab food if it's a lunch or snack break. Walk around to stretch my legs. By the time I'm ready to go so is the car. When pumping gas I can't leave the pump unattended, so bathroom time gets added on top of refuel time. With charging the car is adding range no matter what task I happen to be doing while the car is stationary. The other charge need is daily use. Charging at home is a game changer that absolutely beats gas pumps. It takes me 10 seconds to plug in as I leave the garage. I wake up to a full "tank" every single morning. Daily errands cannot possibly use up my 400 km range, so I never have to think about charge unless I'm on a road trip.
  - GordonS 5y ago
    > The other charge need is daily use. Charging at home... Within reason, this seems like it would be a good tradeoff for many people. Say you're on a rare long journey and need to stop and charge - minutes-wise how long are we talking about?

aidenn0 5y ago

It definitely takes longer west of the Mississippi river in the US. Mountains with 80MPH (130 km/h) speed limits mean the range is far shorter than typical freeway diving, which makes the fact that you need to stop more often, and for longer (gas cars have a typical 330 mile range, 1 l.6 longer than that Ionic), really add up. [edit] I will soon be diving 1600km. Google suggests the route will take 14h. I expect to make it in 15. Friends with Teslas suggest it would take nearly 20.

wazoox 5y ago
Driving at the fastest allowed speed for long duration isn't a good bet with BEV. Usually you'll get shorter trip time by driving at 110km/h and skipping a charge.
- theluketaylor 5y ago
  It depends on the charge curve for the car. For the fastest charging cars it's better to keep the battery in the bottom half (where it charges faster) and charge more often in very short stints.
donkeyd 5y ago
> I will soon be diving 1600km. Google suggests the route will take 14h. I expect to make it in 15. Friends with Teslas suggest it would take nearly 20. Google doesn't account for stops required for toilet breaks, eating and drinking. Of course, you can just not drink, so you don't have to pee. You can eat while driving even though that's isn't a good idea from a safety standpoint. You can skip taking any breaks and get tired, which is also a bad idea from a safety standpoint. It also depends on the available charging infrastructure, of which I have no clue at your destination. In my own experience with driving about 1200 km with regular breaks, it took about an hour longer than it did with my diesel. It just took more planning. Most times, a charging stop meant peeing, drinking a coffee and then the car would be finished charging. The biggest issue was that some chargers aren't near a rest stop.
theluketaylor 5y ago
1600 km in 15 hr is borderline irresponsible driving. Depending on speed limits as there simply isn't enough rest time to ensure you are focused on driving. The EV cannonball record was set this winter in a Porsche Taycan at 44 hrs 26 minutes and that included some charger trouble and much less than ideal temperatures. Google's estimate for that route is 42 hours without any stops of any kind. Here is a route plan for Lincoln, NB to Las Vegas NV. 1989 km with 17:43 driving and 2:29 charging for just over 20 hours total. That's an extra 400 km covered from your rough estimate and includes going up and over some pretty serious mountains. https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=71dfd1e1-a134-46c0-a3c6-32469e198b25 https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=71dfd1e1-a134-46c...
- aidenn0 5y ago
  > 1600 km in 15 hr is borderline irresponsible driving. Depending on speed limits as there simply isn't enough rest time to ensure you are focused on driving. 2 drivers.

jackthezipper 5y ago

>Extremely fast charging [...] can charge 10-80% in 18 minutes, which is enough to travel around 330 km. That's roughly 3 hours of driving in most counties. This is not very impressive, and exactly where I see hydrogen have the upper hand. I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but _having_ to stop for 20 minutes every 3 hours isn't ideal at all for me.

iamthemonster 5y ago
Bloody hell, how much non-stop driving are you doing? If you're driving a solid 12 hours a day, that is only three 18-minute breaks, one of which is your lunch break.
- jackthezipper 5y ago
  >that is only three 18-minute breaks Those are three _mandatory_ breaks, that add up to almost an hour, in ideal circumstances. To answer your question, not a whole lot, but in that 1% 6 hour drives aren't uncommon at all.
  - nickik 5y ago
    You are the outlier of the outlier. And if you plan it well, EV charge actually faster in the lower 50%. So if you really want to optimize you can actually do it with shorter 10 min stops. Check out Kyle from inside EV. And until you can seriously deploy Hydrogen vehicles, it would be a few years down the road. Until then the next generation of battery an charging will be significantly faster already. Practically speaking most people simply don't drive like that, people need to eat, pie and so on. With an EV you simply stop at a charger do all the things and go back. That usually takes 10ish minutes. And to be honest, every road trip with at least on other person usually means a break every 3h anyway. And even more in a day to day application, most people charge over night, so never having to go to a station and having a short break every few hours is vastly preferable to having to constantly go to the hydrogen station. Of course hydrogen would also be significantly more expensive. All in all, it simply doesn't make practical sense to optimize everything for this one specific thing.

dng88 5y ago

Total agreed. It is a surprise that this niche product came back to confuse us customers. Why? Electricity at home and work shared EV ... hydrogen meant going back to gas station. We can stop at place we like to rest and stretch our legs if the rest. and park have these chargers, not gas station ...

GordonS 5y ago

> We didn't have to stop more often or stay any longer than we would have with gasoline. A serious question from someone who knows little about electric cars, and who still thought it would take anywhere between 30-240 minutes to charge, depending on charger type - can electric cars really now charge faster than the < 180 seconds I'd spend refilling with petrol/diesel? If so, I think the industry needs to make more noise about this, to make it more know.

garyrichardson 5y ago
I own the 400km range model 3. I can tell you that you’re comparing apples and oranges. Over the course of the 50 weeks of a year that I don’t take it on long trips I spend 0 seconds waiting for a charge. I plug it in at night and it’s always full in the morning. A typical errand running day for me is 200+ km and I have more than enough range for that. The one or two times I take it on a road trip I usually time it with pee breaks and filling my self with coffee. Net/net I spend less time over all waiting to refuel my car. Yes, of course this depends on me having a place to plug it in at night.
theluketaylor 5y ago
I'm talking about total stop time. Pumping gas is an active task you have to be present for whereas charging isn't. I roll into a charger and plug in, then immediately head to the bathroom. Grab food if it's a lunch or snack break. Walk around to stretch my legs. By the time I'm ready to go so is the car. When pumping gas I can't leave the pump unattended, so bathroom time gets added on top of refuel time. With charging the car is adding range no matter what task I happen to be doing while the car is stationary. The other charge need is daily use. Charging at home is a game changer that absolutely beats gas pumps. It takes me 10 seconds to plug in as I leave the garage. I wake up to a full "tank" every single morning. Daily errands cannot possibly use up my 400 km range, so I never have to think about charge unless I'm on a road trip.
- GordonS 5y ago
  > The other charge need is daily use. Charging at home... Within reason, this seems like it would be a good tradeoff for many people. Say you're on a rare long journey and need to stop and charge - minutes-wise how long are we talking about?