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That covers only the energy spent on mining etc but not the environmental impact of digging up entire country sides. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-ba

That covers only the energy spent on mining etc but not the environmental impact of digging up entire country sides. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-batteries-environment-impact https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-batteries-environmen...

epistasis 5y ago
This seems to be a rather selective concern, when, as the article states, there's only 12kg of lithium in the batteries of a Tesla, which is one of the larger batteries out there. Are you also concerned about the steel, which is on the order of thousands of pounds per vehicle, and requires not only digging for iron, but also the coking coal? And speaking of digging, iron and coal do actually dig up landscapes, whereas most lithium is actually brine mined rather than dug out.
bbarnett 5y ago
Steel is reused, car wreckers strip cars, crush the steel, and off it goes to be made into girders or something. What's more worrying is battery recycling. Toxoc batteries. So far, The West's plan has been to ship them to poor countries, which tend to just bury them. This can be resolved, but will it be? I say this to anyone claiming to be green, unless you know 100% how your product can be recycled, with concrete, in place processes and recyclers, you're a liar, and not green.
- epistasis 5y ago
  Shipping lithium ion batteries is expensive, because they weigh so much. And no, there's no plan to ship them to poor countries, that's just a fabrication, based on nothing. It's quite likely that battery production will be performed very close to fins assembly, because of the low price of batteries per pound, especially compared to something that does get supped a lot, like solar PV panels. Long distance shipping of batteries would add significantly to their cost. In reality, lithium ion battery recycling is baked into this supply chain from the start. There are many startups eager to recycle batteries, the biggest challenge is that there isn't any substantial amount to recycle at the moment. Manufacturing rejects are one of the prime inputs to current battery recyclers.

epistasis 5y ago

This seems to be a rather selective concern, when, as the article states, there's only 12kg of lithium in the batteries of a Tesla, which is one of the larger batteries out there. Are you also concerned about the steel, which is on the order of thousands of pounds per vehicle, and requires not only digging for iron, but also the coking coal? And speaking of digging, iron and coal do actually dig up landscapes, whereas most lithium is actually brine mined rather than dug out.

bbarnett 5y ago

Steel is reused, car wreckers strip cars, crush the steel, and off it goes to be made into girders or something. What's more worrying is battery recycling. Toxoc batteries. So far, The West's plan has been to ship them to poor countries, which tend to just bury them. This can be resolved, but will it be? I say this to anyone claiming to be green, unless you know 100% how your product can be recycled, with concrete, in place processes and recyclers, you're a liar, and not green.

epistasis 5y ago
Shipping lithium ion batteries is expensive, because they weigh so much. And no, there's no plan to ship them to poor countries, that's just a fabrication, based on nothing. It's quite likely that battery production will be performed very close to fins assembly, because of the low price of batteries per pound, especially compared to something that does get supped a lot, like solar PV panels. Long distance shipping of batteries would add significantly to their cost. In reality, lithium ion battery recycling is baked into this supply chain from the start. There are many startups eager to recycle batteries, the biggest challenge is that there isn't any substantial amount to recycle at the moment. Manufacturing rejects are one of the prime inputs to current battery recyclers.