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Car maker's attraction for fuel cells is that they neatly replace the internal combustion engine with another large, heavy, hot mechanism that continues to requ

Car maker's attraction for fuel cells is that they neatly replace the internal combustion engine with another large, heavy, hot mechanism that continues to require about the same amount of ongoing maintenance. So the automaker's balance sheet remains about the same but now it's green. As Musk pointed out some years ago, hydrogen is not so much a fuel as it is an energy storage medium. Right out of the gate creating the hydrogen reduces the system efficiency by about 50% because of the electricity required. In essence then hydrogen fuel cells are just a less efficient form of electricity that require a complex and expensive mechanism to turn into motive force. Possibly useful for shipping or trains but not the way to bet for cars.

bbarnett 5y ago
People talk about hooking cars up to the grid, and charging them during times of excess power, and then selling that power back during peak. Yet, that shorten battery lifespan a lot (imagine a car charged weekly to get around town, now discharged/charged daily... battery life is now 1/7th). There is also loss during charging, and discharge, loss in power lines too. Meanwhile, you could create h2 right at the power plant during time of excess. Like at a dam. Then just send all that stored energy via pipelines, just a with natural gas.
- epistasis 5y ago
  Cycling batteries small percentages around mid level charges does almost nothing to battery life. Already, it's expected that we will soon have car batteries that outlast the rest of the car, with million miles lifetimes. Plus, there's a specific cost to the battery life, that can be calculated, and evaluated against the gains from arbitraging electricity prices. If batteries are economical on the grid, and they are increasingly replacing natural gas peakers for cost reasons, then car batteries will be a huge resource that is an economic win for car owners and for electricity rate payers.
Black101 5y ago
Because batteries are not a storage medium and they are not filled by using electricity... ? of course gasoline is better because you get it out of the ground, but I have a feeling that we will discover an efficient way to produce hydrogen ...

bbarnett 5y ago

People talk about hooking cars up to the grid, and charging them during times of excess power, and then selling that power back during peak. Yet, that shorten battery lifespan a lot (imagine a car charged weekly to get around town, now discharged/charged daily... battery life is now 1/7th). There is also loss during charging, and discharge, loss in power lines too. Meanwhile, you could create h2 right at the power plant during time of excess. Like at a dam. Then just send all that stored energy via pipelines, just a with natural gas.

epistasis 5y ago
Cycling batteries small percentages around mid level charges does almost nothing to battery life. Already, it's expected that we will soon have car batteries that outlast the rest of the car, with million miles lifetimes. Plus, there's a specific cost to the battery life, that can be calculated, and evaluated against the gains from arbitraging electricity prices. If batteries are economical on the grid, and they are increasingly replacing natural gas peakers for cost reasons, then car batteries will be a huge resource that is an economic win for car owners and for electricity rate payers.

Black101 5y ago

Because batteries are not a storage medium and they are not filled by using electricity... ? of course gasoline is better because you get it out of the ground, but I have a feeling that we will discover an efficient way to produce hydrogen ...