5 ms·

It's not called a spyware, it turned into a spyware after acquisition

alkonaut 5y ago
Who would aquire a piece of pretty niche software to use strategically as a spying platform? Is the information that can be gained really worth that much?
- tpxl 5y ago
  Browser extensions with 10k users are routinely acquired as a "spying platform".
  - throwaway744678 5y ago
    I thought that browser extensions were more valuable as a code/ads/whatever injection tool in the users page ?
    - 988747 5y ago
      Which is perfect for creating "spying platform".
  - alkonaut 5y ago
    So information from as few as 10k or 100k users have any value? What is it that is gathered and sold, and in what form?
    - Applejinx 5y ago
      Doesn't matter. All that matters is if someone can be made to think it matters, enough to pay for access to whatever information it is. I feel like HN folks often look for underlying meaning, a structure or purpose through which transactions like this can contribute to greater progress in line with the promise of capitalism. But that's only true when channeled by the constraints of rule systems, which aren't a given. In the absence of other meaning, it doesn't matter what the 10k user information is. That userbase can still be cannibalized if there's somebody who can be fooled into thinking that act is useful/profitable. Rules saying 'this sort of destructive community-pillaging will cost you more than you gain' aren't necessarily there. In the absence of them, you don't need to prove harming the 10k community will be profitable over the long or even short term: you only have to find somebody with money who can be persuaded they'll benefit, even if that's not true. If they think that, then you definitely can benefit from selling out the community. You can know it's a doomed exploit, but if you get paid, you're out of it by the time the truth comes out.
  - bottled_poe 5y ago
    This sounds like rubbish. Any sources for this claim?
    - elmo2you 5y ago
      I remember reading blog posts from browser extension maintainers, at least 3 or 4 times, who spoke out about regularly being approached by shady buyers for exactly that reason. Unless they were all making things up, I'd say it may indeed be something that is happening. I don't remember the sources, but I guess you're capable of using a search engine too.
    - jakopo87 5y ago
      The Great Suspender: https://github.com/greatsuspender/thegreatsuspender/issues/1263 https://github.com/greatsuspender/thegreatsuspender/issues/1...
- villgax 5y ago
  The fact that it was a reliable offline piece of FOSS software key for so many workflows, browser-extension much?
- uvesten 5y ago
  I don't think it's that "niche", actually. At least from my anecdata, a lot of people who want to do some basic sound editing without buying an audio editor (those are often quite expensive) at least try using Audacity at some point.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    It's so niche, they'll be the only ones with that data! Sounds like a tuesday in most marketing/PR departments.
- htns 5y ago
  Why would anyone acquire it except to turn it into malware? I can't recall a project that wasn't built for commercial success from the start being bought for any other reason. I guess sourceforge stopping malware bundling could count.
  - alkonaut 5y ago
    I don’t doubt that’s what’s happening but I’m curious if/how it can be a good business decision
    - Applejinx 5y ago
      Business profit doesn't have to be a global value. If Audacity is purchased at value X and pillaged in such a way that you can get a third party to pay you value Y for what you did to/with it, and Y > X, that's profitable depending on how much effort/expense you had to go to during that process. Doesn't have anything to do with even Audacity's users, much less the sustainability of the Audacity ecosystem. If there exists somebody somewhere who would pay more to see Audacity scuttled than it'd cost to buy, that becomes a potential profit motive to a facilitating third party if they know of that dynamic out there to be exploited. This is of course subject to whether it's allowed to just wreck stuff for your benefit, and how. In cases of simple property, it's generally not: you can't just burn down a rival store to benefit yourself because that's against the rules. I don't think such limitations currently apply to businesses past a certain level of abstraction, and what's happening to Audacity is not in the least meant as 'just burn it down', even if that's what happens: it's meant as 'get more control over this property', for whatever reason. That may or may not be a wise business decision, but in terms of being able to extract profit, it's a good business decision if in any way, for any reason, it works to get them more money than they paid for the property. I think it's a very bad decision in the larger sense of things in the world, ability to trust in the things we know about, ability to function within larger systems of known properties and build order out of chaos for the sake of real progress. But that wasn't the question.
- npteljes 5y ago
  I mean, it's the default audio software in many Linux distros, Tails included.

Who would aquire a piece of pretty niche software to use strategically as a spying platform? Is the information that can be gained really worth that much?

tpxl 5y ago
Browser extensions with 10k users are routinely acquired as a "spying platform".
- throwaway744678 5y ago
  I thought that browser extensions were more valuable as a code/ads/whatever injection tool in the users page ?
  - 988747 5y ago
    Which is perfect for creating "spying platform".
- alkonaut 5y ago
  So information from as few as 10k or 100k users have any value? What is it that is gathered and sold, and in what form?
  - Applejinx 5y ago
    Doesn't matter. All that matters is if someone can be made to think it matters, enough to pay for access to whatever information it is. I feel like HN folks often look for underlying meaning, a structure or purpose through which transactions like this can contribute to greater progress in line with the promise of capitalism. But that's only true when channeled by the constraints of rule systems, which aren't a given. In the absence of other meaning, it doesn't matter what the 10k user information is. That userbase can still be cannibalized if there's somebody who can be fooled into thinking that act is useful/profitable. Rules saying 'this sort of destructive community-pillaging will cost you more than you gain' aren't necessarily there. In the absence of them, you don't need to prove harming the 10k community will be profitable over the long or even short term: you only have to find somebody with money who can be persuaded they'll benefit, even if that's not true. If they think that, then you definitely can benefit from selling out the community. You can know it's a doomed exploit, but if you get paid, you're out of it by the time the truth comes out.
- bottled_poe 5y ago
  This sounds like rubbish. Any sources for this claim?
  - elmo2you 5y ago
    I remember reading blog posts from browser extension maintainers, at least 3 or 4 times, who spoke out about regularly being approached by shady buyers for exactly that reason. Unless they were all making things up, I'd say it may indeed be something that is happening. I don't remember the sources, but I guess you're capable of using a search engine too.
  - jakopo87 5y ago
    The Great Suspender: https://github.com/greatsuspender/thegreatsuspender/issues/1263 https://github.com/greatsuspender/thegreatsuspender/issues/1...
villgax 5y ago
The fact that it was a reliable offline piece of FOSS software key for so many workflows, browser-extension much?
uvesten 5y ago
I don't think it's that "niche", actually. At least from my anecdata, a lot of people who want to do some basic sound editing without buying an audio editor (those are often quite expensive) at least try using Audacity at some point.
- dylan604 5y ago
  It's so niche, they'll be the only ones with that data! Sounds like a tuesday in most marketing/PR departments.
htns 5y ago
Why would anyone acquire it except to turn it into malware? I can't recall a project that wasn't built for commercial success from the start being bought for any other reason. I guess sourceforge stopping malware bundling could count.
- alkonaut 5y ago
  I don’t doubt that’s what’s happening but I’m curious if/how it can be a good business decision
  - Applejinx 5y ago
    Business profit doesn't have to be a global value. If Audacity is purchased at value X and pillaged in such a way that you can get a third party to pay you value Y for what you did to/with it, and Y > X, that's profitable depending on how much effort/expense you had to go to during that process. Doesn't have anything to do with even Audacity's users, much less the sustainability of the Audacity ecosystem. If there exists somebody somewhere who would pay more to see Audacity scuttled than it'd cost to buy, that becomes a potential profit motive to a facilitating third party if they know of that dynamic out there to be exploited. This is of course subject to whether it's allowed to just wreck stuff for your benefit, and how. In cases of simple property, it's generally not: you can't just burn down a rival store to benefit yourself because that's against the rules. I don't think such limitations currently apply to businesses past a certain level of abstraction, and what's happening to Audacity is not in the least meant as 'just burn it down', even if that's what happens: it's meant as 'get more control over this property', for whatever reason. That may or may not be a wise business decision, but in terms of being able to extract profit, it's a good business decision if in any way, for any reason, it works to get them more money than they paid for the property. I think it's a very bad decision in the larger sense of things in the world, ability to trust in the things we know about, ability to function within larger systems of known properties and build order out of chaos for the sake of real progress. But that wasn't the question.
npteljes 5y ago
I mean, it's the default audio software in many Linux distros, Tails included.