4 ms·

It's so weird to me to see people argue against a shorter work week. > I enjoy working 5 days a week, it gives me more time to ... Ok, by all means, keep doin

by koch 5y ago

It's so weird to me to see people argue against a shorter work week. > I enjoy working 5 days a week, it gives me more time to ... Ok, by all means, keep doing that? If you have this position you are probably already working on the weekend anyway. You can live (thrive, even!) in a society that has a 4 day week and still work 5 days. Go for it. > It'll never happen / It's a pipe dream So was women's rights, civil rights, the current 40 hour week, etc. etc. Idk why the idea needs to be dismissed just because it isn't the norm now. > Seems like a slippery slope, what's next, a 3 day week?? Don't we want to be on such a slope!?! Do we think we'll be working 5 days a week 100 years from now? Is a 5 day week the best we can do?? 99% of us are working for someone else, it boggles my mind how much opposition there is from workers to working less and getting more of our own time back. If I'm ever in the fortunate position of being able to hire people, we'll have a four day week. I'm keeping track of the companies that have a four day week here: https://thelistofcompanies.com https://thelistofcompanies.com

insert_coin 5y ago
> It's so weird to me to see people argue against a shorter work week. No one is arguing against a shorter work week, that's just misrepresenting the position. Furthermore, you've been able to offer 4 day work weeks to your employees since forever, no one is stopping you. In fact you can offer them 3 days work week right now since you are so benevolent. Why don't you offer them 1 day work weeks while you are at it? You should make a list for that. The pushback is against the idea of government decreeing the number of days you are allowed to work.
- peakaboo 5y ago
  You can turn the same argument around. If 4 day work week is standard, you can work 5 days if you want. You can even work 6 days or 7 days right now, nobody is stopping you.
  - insert_coin 5y ago
    No you cannot. Government is stopping you by preventing companies from hiring workers for more than they allow. That is the reason people get two or even three jobs.
peakaboo 5y ago
I agree with you but some peoples identity are very much integrated with their work. Make them work less and their life becomes less meaningful. For people like you and me, we work to live, not live to work. So we want to work less. It makes us feel happier and more free. I think the salaries are also an issue. We can't cut salaries with 20% so this becomes an extra cost for the companies or the government, depending on who should pay for it. Overall though, I think most people would agree that it's considered progress if humans work less so we can actually do more things than work with our lives.
- kqr 5y ago
  This is not about making people work less, it's about giving people the option to work less without paying dearly for it. (A 20 % pay cut should be the absolute maximum cost for a 20 % shorter work week, but as it stands today it's not. In practise, people who'd get about the same amount of actual work done in less time should have no pay cut. These are the problems we need to fix.)
jasonkester 5y ago
Yeah, this is an infuriating bit of human nature that I notice quite often. People would rather destroy the New Good Thing than take advantage of it.
SilverRed 5y ago
> Seems like a slippery slope, what's next, a 3 day week?? I think there is something worth digging in to on this point. These trials are showing that after lowering hours, productivity went up to at least match or exceed previous values. So the question is raised, what is the optimal amount of time to produce maximum results? If -1 day was an improvement, is -2 days even more of an improvement? Is -0.5 days less of an improvement? What if we rearange this, are less week days but longer days better? Or are shorter days with more week days better? As well as how long can this be sustained? Workers must be working more and using their time better than before. Is this entirely due to having more free time or is it partially due to the novelty of lower times which will wear off? I'm all for investigating lower work weeks but I don't think we have really collected all of the info yet. Let the trials continue!
machinehermiter 5y ago
IMO there is an equilibrium problem. I really have no problem working 45 hours a week. I am not changing to 36 hours a week while a co-worker works 45 and then the co-worker is the one who ends up getting promoted. I am not working in a coal mine or digging ditches that my body is breaking down after 35 hours. I am perfectly capable of 45 high quality hours a week of mental work a week that I enjoy doing. That is what I am looking to trade in the market place and be compensated for. Most people I know don't do much besides play on their phone when off anyway. What you need an additional day a week to get in more social media?
- mech422 5y ago
  Just wow... Sounds like you need better employers and more interesting friends. And perhaps some realization that not everyone has the same demands on their time.
- MrDresden 5y ago
  I'm truly sorry that your reality has imposed that view on you. In my reality, someone who works less is able to relax more, leading to potentially better throught out work (be it code, design, writing, teaching etc). In the end, the individual with the higher quality work will receive extra benefits. Not the one who produces the most.

by koch 5y ago

insert_coin 5y ago

> It's so weird to me to see people argue against a shorter work week. No one is arguing against a shorter work week, that's just misrepresenting the position. Furthermore, you've been able to offer 4 day work weeks to your employees since forever, no one is stopping you. In fact you can offer them 3 days work week right now since you are so benevolent. Why don't you offer them 1 day work weeks while you are at it? You should make a list for that. The pushback is against the idea of government decreeing the number of days you are allowed to work.

peakaboo 5y ago
You can turn the same argument around. If 4 day work week is standard, you can work 5 days if you want. You can even work 6 days or 7 days right now, nobody is stopping you.
- insert_coin 5y ago
  No you cannot. Government is stopping you by preventing companies from hiring workers for more than they allow. That is the reason people get two or even three jobs.

peakaboo 5y ago

I agree with you but some peoples identity are very much integrated with their work. Make them work less and their life becomes less meaningful. For people like you and me, we work to live, not live to work. So we want to work less. It makes us feel happier and more free. I think the salaries are also an issue. We can't cut salaries with 20% so this becomes an extra cost for the companies or the government, depending on who should pay for it. Overall though, I think most people would agree that it's considered progress if humans work less so we can actually do more things than work with our lives.

kqr 5y ago
This is not about making people work less, it's about giving people the option to work less without paying dearly for it. (A 20 % pay cut should be the absolute maximum cost for a 20 % shorter work week, but as it stands today it's not. In practise, people who'd get about the same amount of actual work done in less time should have no pay cut. These are the problems we need to fix.)

jasonkester 5y ago

Yeah, this is an infuriating bit of human nature that I notice quite often. People would rather destroy the New Good Thing than take advantage of it.

SilverRed 5y ago

> Seems like a slippery slope, what's next, a 3 day week?? I think there is something worth digging in to on this point. These trials are showing that after lowering hours, productivity went up to at least match or exceed previous values. So the question is raised, what is the optimal amount of time to produce maximum results? If -1 day was an improvement, is -2 days even more of an improvement? Is -0.5 days less of an improvement? What if we rearange this, are less week days but longer days better? Or are shorter days with more week days better? As well as how long can this be sustained? Workers must be working more and using their time better than before. Is this entirely due to having more free time or is it partially due to the novelty of lower times which will wear off? I'm all for investigating lower work weeks but I don't think we have really collected all of the info yet. Let the trials continue!

machinehermiter 5y ago

IMO there is an equilibrium problem. I really have no problem working 45 hours a week. I am not changing to 36 hours a week while a co-worker works 45 and then the co-worker is the one who ends up getting promoted. I am not working in a coal mine or digging ditches that my body is breaking down after 35 hours. I am perfectly capable of 45 high quality hours a week of mental work a week that I enjoy doing. That is what I am looking to trade in the market place and be compensated for. Most people I know don't do much besides play on their phone when off anyway. What you need an additional day a week to get in more social media?

mech422 5y ago
Just wow... Sounds like you need better employers and more interesting friends. And perhaps some realization that not everyone has the same demands on their time.
MrDresden 5y ago
I'm truly sorry that your reality has imposed that view on you. In my reality, someone who works less is able to relax more, leading to potentially better throught out work (be it code, design, writing, teaching etc). In the end, the individual with the higher quality work will receive extra benefits. Not the one who produces the most.