6 ms·

Cloud-Native Database Systems (2021)

78 points by anhldbk 5y ago

bsdnoob 5y ago
is there any videos?
bullen 5y ago
I made something useful: http://root.rupy.se http://root.rupy.se It has 100% read uptime without complexity.
- ithkuil 5y ago
  Unfortunately I don't understand what you just linked. Often I see people resolving complexity with inscrutability but I'm afraid it doesn't help resolving the problem. Do you have a something written that explains what is this think you're sharing?
  - bullen 5y ago
    Nope, the source code is linked and it's compact enough that you should be able to learn everything in about an hour. But here is the only documentation I have written so far: https://github.com/tinspin/rupy/wiki/Storage https://github.com/tinspin/rupy/wiki/Storage To see it in action with source: http://fuse.rupy.se http://fuse.rupy.se (multiplayer system prooven with 350.000 customers and 5 years uptime) TLDR: It's my own database I made after using MySQL, Postgres, Oracle for 10 years (and building my own ORM with GUI design tool: http://move.rupy.se/file/logic.html http://move.rupy.se/file/logic.html). It out-scales everything on the planet but it has disk-space issues (that can be fixed with compression 100x but that adds complexity so I'll do it when my SSDs run out of space). It uses this old goodie for authentication: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2289 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2289
    - ithkuil 5y ago
      > Nope, the source code is linked and it's compact enough that you should be able to learn everything in about an hour. I don't doubt that somebody who wants to learn this can do that in an hour as you say. But why would I invest one hour of my time to learn something I have no idea what it is !? I skimmed through the readme and wiki and all I see is something vague about how async is good and how stellar the performances are. The world is vast; the flood of information is a serious problem. My piece of advice to you fellow HN member is that the burden is on you to explain why something is interesting. Otherwise people will flock to crappy complex stuff, because unfortunately those are better explained.
      - bullen 5y ago
        I'm not doing this for fame or money, I'm building a 3D MMO platform for eternity, so it's all or nothing: Either all I did in life will disappear or I'm making the next open Minecraft in which case everyone will use it anyway. I'm fine with both outcomes. Notch spent zero time documenting and he obfuscated the binaries, still more people know that reverse engineered source today than any other source to ever exist, maybe forever (unless I succeed)!
        jwhitlark 5y ago
        He's not saying you have an obligation to document your code, he's saying if you're going to add it to a discussion, you need to give us a one-sentence description of what it is so we can see how it is relevant and decide if we want to spend an hour getting to know the code. Basically, tell us what the value proposition of your comment is, otherwise it's just a link in a vacuum.
        bullen 5y ago
        Most people have problems with persistence, it's a though subject until you realize most of the problem is fear caused by responsibility. Most databases (SQL) where designed before the internet, that is a major flaw in them and this instead uses HTTP from the start and JSON in regular files. So it's simpler. But it also has authentication, relational values, indexing and it's async. joint parallel distributed. So it's versatile and powerful without becoming complex and heavy! It allows you to have coherent data at many locations around the world without a big complex monster like described in the article. The only downside is disk space!
    - victor106 5y ago
      Rupy is awesome. One team within my org uses it and they love it.
      - bullen 5y ago
        I think that might be ruby python no? Naming is not my best skill.
    - mdaniel 5y ago
      > it's compact enough that you should be able to learn everything in about an hour. Yup, I learned everything I need to know about this project in 5 minutes: https://github.com/tinspin/rupy/blob/7d7972932101b0bbe473a4f5460acfd77940bd7d/src/se/rupy/http/Daemon.java#L156 https://github.com/tinspin/rupy/blob/7d7972932101b0bbe473a4f... I hope you're successful in your Minecraft replacement, as I've enjoyed playing with some of the hobby projects it inspired
      - bullen 5y ago
        :D Sometimes I just run out of patience and don't care if something fails, in this case it was copy pasta though.
ok2938 5y ago
There are at least two aspects of cloud: 1. The developer experience. This is crucial, developers want programmable things, everywhere. You can reap the benefits of automation. 2. Vendor lock in and platform power. There are three large players today and they add bit and pieces all the time; leading to vendor lock in. The cloud is even for mid-size projects much more expensive than raw hosting or owning the hardware. Today, I would treat cloud as an expensive, but useful starter - to get you going, to try things out quickly. I would not bet my business on it, especially not, if I were a large company. Ergo: Building everything in a "cloud native" mode restricts you where you can go from day one. Not good.
- stingraycharles 5y ago
  On the other hand, building everything "cloud native" can also enable some things that are very difficult to achieve otherwise. One thing that comes to mind is decoupling storage and compute, where you can use auto-scaling for the compute parts: great for OLAP / data-warehousing types of problems. Regardless, I don't consider it merely a "useful starter" -- there are many mature businesses for which IT is not their core competency but still need to deal with complex architectures, and the cloud is very attractive to them.
  - ok2938 5y ago
    I have to yet have people tell their most pressing need is auto-scaling. It's not, it's a straw man - and true, if you are Google or Facebook - but 90% of companies won't need that at all.
    - stingraycharles 5y ago
      Of course it’s never the most pressing need, but it’s definitely a need in some circumstances. To completely disregard these use cases is not very useful.
- Axien 5y ago
  I would disagree the cloud is more expensive. Yes you can purchase a server from Dell with a 5 year life expectancy for less than renting from AWS. But that is not the true cost. Enterprises require high availability and disaster recovery. Start thinking multiple data centers to meet a RTO requirement after a regional failure with high speed network connectivity between the datacenters to meet your RPO requirements. Add off site backups and personnel at multiple locations and the cloud becomes very compelling. And that is before you start optimizing your application for the cloud.
eatonphil 5y ago
This is a really great collection of modern DB papers. Folks here may also be interested in Andy Pavlo's series hosting developers from the team of many of these databases: https://youtube.com/c/CMUDatabaseGroup https://youtube.com/c/CMUDatabaseGroup.
jadia 5y ago
Where can I find the videos for this course?

78 points by anhldbk 5y ago

bsdnoob 5y ago

is there any videos?

bullen 5y ago

I made something useful: http://root.rupy.se http://root.rupy.se It has 100% read uptime without complexity.

ithkuil 5y ago
Unfortunately I don't understand what you just linked. Often I see people resolving complexity with inscrutability but I'm afraid it doesn't help resolving the problem. Do you have a something written that explains what is this think you're sharing?
- bullen 5y ago
  Nope, the source code is linked and it's compact enough that you should be able to learn everything in about an hour. But here is the only documentation I have written so far: https://github.com/tinspin/rupy/wiki/Storage https://github.com/tinspin/rupy/wiki/Storage To see it in action with source: http://fuse.rupy.se http://fuse.rupy.se (multiplayer system prooven with 350.000 customers and 5 years uptime) TLDR: It's my own database I made after using MySQL, Postgres, Oracle for 10 years (and building my own ORM with GUI design tool: http://move.rupy.se/file/logic.html http://move.rupy.se/file/logic.html). It out-scales everything on the planet but it has disk-space issues (that can be fixed with compression 100x but that adds complexity so I'll do it when my SSDs run out of space). It uses this old goodie for authentication: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2289 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2289
  - ithkuil 5y ago
    > Nope, the source code is linked and it's compact enough that you should be able to learn everything in about an hour. I don't doubt that somebody who wants to learn this can do that in an hour as you say. But why would I invest one hour of my time to learn something I have no idea what it is !? I skimmed through the readme and wiki and all I see is something vague about how async is good and how stellar the performances are. The world is vast; the flood of information is a serious problem. My piece of advice to you fellow HN member is that the burden is on you to explain why something is interesting. Otherwise people will flock to crappy complex stuff, because unfortunately those are better explained.
    - bullen 5y ago
      I'm not doing this for fame or money, I'm building a 3D MMO platform for eternity, so it's all or nothing: Either all I did in life will disappear or I'm making the next open Minecraft in which case everyone will use it anyway. I'm fine with both outcomes. Notch spent zero time documenting and he obfuscated the binaries, still more people know that reverse engineered source today than any other source to ever exist, maybe forever (unless I succeed)!
      - jwhitlark 5y ago
        He's not saying you have an obligation to document your code, he's saying if you're going to add it to a discussion, you need to give us a one-sentence description of what it is so we can see how it is relevant and decide if we want to spend an hour getting to know the code. Basically, tell us what the value proposition of your comment is, otherwise it's just a link in a vacuum.
        bullen 5y ago
        Most people have problems with persistence, it's a though subject until you realize most of the problem is fear caused by responsibility. Most databases (SQL) where designed before the internet, that is a major flaw in them and this instead uses HTTP from the start and JSON in regular files. So it's simpler. But it also has authentication, relational values, indexing and it's async. joint parallel distributed. So it's versatile and powerful without becoming complex and heavy! It allows you to have coherent data at many locations around the world without a big complex monster like described in the article. The only downside is disk space!
  - victor106 5y ago
    Rupy is awesome. One team within my org uses it and they love it.
    - bullen 5y ago
      I think that might be ruby python no? Naming is not my best skill.
  - mdaniel 5y ago
    > it's compact enough that you should be able to learn everything in about an hour. Yup, I learned everything I need to know about this project in 5 minutes: https://github.com/tinspin/rupy/blob/7d7972932101b0bbe473a4f5460acfd77940bd7d/src/se/rupy/http/Daemon.java#L156 https://github.com/tinspin/rupy/blob/7d7972932101b0bbe473a4f... I hope you're successful in your Minecraft replacement, as I've enjoyed playing with some of the hobby projects it inspired
    - bullen 5y ago
      :D Sometimes I just run out of patience and don't care if something fails, in this case it was copy pasta though.

ok2938 5y ago

There are at least two aspects of cloud: 1. The developer experience. This is crucial, developers want programmable things, everywhere. You can reap the benefits of automation. 2. Vendor lock in and platform power. There are three large players today and they add bit and pieces all the time; leading to vendor lock in. The cloud is even for mid-size projects much more expensive than raw hosting or owning the hardware. Today, I would treat cloud as an expensive, but useful starter - to get you going, to try things out quickly. I would not bet my business on it, especially not, if I were a large company. Ergo: Building everything in a "cloud native" mode restricts you where you can go from day one. Not good.

stingraycharles 5y ago
On the other hand, building everything "cloud native" can also enable some things that are very difficult to achieve otherwise. One thing that comes to mind is decoupling storage and compute, where you can use auto-scaling for the compute parts: great for OLAP / data-warehousing types of problems. Regardless, I don't consider it merely a "useful starter" -- there are many mature businesses for which IT is not their core competency but still need to deal with complex architectures, and the cloud is very attractive to them.
- ok2938 5y ago
  I have to yet have people tell their most pressing need is auto-scaling. It's not, it's a straw man - and true, if you are Google or Facebook - but 90% of companies won't need that at all.
  - stingraycharles 5y ago
    Of course it’s never the most pressing need, but it’s definitely a need in some circumstances. To completely disregard these use cases is not very useful.
Axien 5y ago
I would disagree the cloud is more expensive. Yes you can purchase a server from Dell with a 5 year life expectancy for less than renting from AWS. But that is not the true cost. Enterprises require high availability and disaster recovery. Start thinking multiple data centers to meet a RTO requirement after a regional failure with high speed network connectivity between the datacenters to meet your RPO requirements. Add off site backups and personnel at multiple locations and the cloud becomes very compelling. And that is before you start optimizing your application for the cloud.

eatonphil 5y ago

This is a really great collection of modern DB papers. Folks here may also be interested in Andy Pavlo's series hosting developers from the team of many of these databases: https://youtube.com/c/CMUDatabaseGroup https://youtube.com/c/CMUDatabaseGroup.

jadia 5y ago

Where can I find the videos for this course?