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> if I want a device that does not allow sideloading It's pretty simple. Just don't sideload apps. Or perhaps there could be a setting that you turn on, tha

by stale2002 5y ago

> if I want a device that does not allow sideloading It's pretty simple. Just don't sideload apps. Or perhaps there could be a setting that you turn on, that disallows sideloading. If you turn on a setting, that disallows sideloading, then in that case you would have a platform that does what you want.

danaris 5y ago
This does not solve the problem. If sideloading is available, there will be a nonzero number of developers who choose to provide their app only through sideloading, and eschew Apple's App Store. Some of these will be doing so merely so they don't have to take the extra effort (or pay the extra money) to submit apps to Apple. No malicious intent, but they still won't be reviewed, so unintentional danger can still get through. Others will be deliberately avoiding Apple's App Review so they can steal your passwords and spy on your banking apps, or hell, just install a rootkit if there's one available at the time. And still others will be trying to create commercial-grade apps that provide full functionality, but can violate your privacy without asking permission because that's their business model (particularly Facebook and Google). And some of these will replace apps that are currently available from the App Store, with all the protections that entails. Particularly Facebook and Google.
- the8472 5y ago
  > Others will be deliberately avoiding Apple's App Review so they can steal your passwords and spy on your banking apps, or hell, just install a rootkit if there's one available at the time. Sideloading and app permissions are orthogonal.
- summm 5y ago
  For the 1000th time: just don't use those sideloaded apps. Nobody is forcing you to install Facebook or any other trendy app of the day except your own weakness and childishness. The argument goes the other way for actual adults: currently, on android I can only choose between app backup on Google drive, or no backup at all. I cant firewall untrusted apps. or disable intrusive features. With full access (i.e. root) I can do all those things that improve my privacy tremendously. However currently phone manufacturers in concert with Google make it harder and harder to control your own phone. I'm calling out android here because it seems to follow apple regarding the war on general computation.
  - colejohnson66 5y ago
    > just don't use those sideloaded apps. Nobody is forcing you to install Facebook or any other trendy app of the day except your own weakness and childishness. If we’re going to bring consumer choice into this argument, why can’t the consumer who wants sideloading just vote with their wallet? I’ve yet to read a good argument here for this separation. After all, “nobody is forcing you to buy iPhones except your own weakness and childness.” You mention how Android isn’t better in that regard, but it’s still an option.
  - llukas 5y ago
    You seem to be confused and looking for Librem 5 or Pinephone. They seriously need audience, users and money to get up to speed to be viable alternative. In other words: pay for your tools. Configurable tools for pros cost more. Some people recognize their weaknesses and pick tools accordingly. You want to take this choice away. Please fuck off.
- collaborative 5y ago
  Your comment makes little sense But one point that is very clear. You belong to a group of users that enjoy the leverage Apple has on developers, and you want it to stay that way
- Dah00n 5y ago
  You seem to misunderstand app permissions. A sideloaded app doesn't magically avoid the permission system. If you can steal passwords by installing an app via sideload then there's a huge hole in the security of iOS. You seem hellbent on badmouthing sideloading but seem to have a poor understanding of sandboxes and app permissions. The security against what you mention is supposed to come from iOS - not app review teams.
- stale2002 5y ago
  > there will be a nonzero number of developers Oh ok. So this has nothing to do with your phone and your choices. Instead, what you want to do is force other people to do certain things with their own hard work. Not really sure why you think you should have domain over what other developers do with their own apps. If you don't like those apps, then don't use them. Problem solved.

danaris 5y ago

This does not solve the problem. If sideloading is available, there will be a nonzero number of developers who choose to provide their app only through sideloading, and eschew Apple's App Store. Some of these will be doing so merely so they don't have to take the extra effort (or pay the extra money) to submit apps to Apple. No malicious intent, but they still won't be reviewed, so unintentional danger can still get through. Others will be deliberately avoiding Apple's App Review so they can steal your passwords and spy on your banking apps, or hell, just install a rootkit if there's one available at the time. And still others will be trying to create commercial-grade apps that provide full functionality, but can violate your privacy without asking permission because that's their business model (particularly Facebook and Google). And some of these will replace apps that are currently available from the App Store, with all the protections that entails. Particularly Facebook and Google.

the8472 5y ago
> Others will be deliberately avoiding Apple's App Review so they can steal your passwords and spy on your banking apps, or hell, just install a rootkit if there's one available at the time. Sideloading and app permissions are orthogonal.
summm 5y ago
For the 1000th time: just don't use those sideloaded apps. Nobody is forcing you to install Facebook or any other trendy app of the day except your own weakness and childishness. The argument goes the other way for actual adults: currently, on android I can only choose between app backup on Google drive, or no backup at all. I cant firewall untrusted apps. or disable intrusive features. With full access (i.e. root) I can do all those things that improve my privacy tremendously. However currently phone manufacturers in concert with Google make it harder and harder to control your own phone. I'm calling out android here because it seems to follow apple regarding the war on general computation.
- colejohnson66 5y ago
  > just don't use those sideloaded apps. Nobody is forcing you to install Facebook or any other trendy app of the day except your own weakness and childishness. If we’re going to bring consumer choice into this argument, why can’t the consumer who wants sideloading just vote with their wallet? I’ve yet to read a good argument here for this separation. After all, “nobody is forcing you to buy iPhones except your own weakness and childness.” You mention how Android isn’t better in that regard, but it’s still an option.
- llukas 5y ago
  You seem to be confused and looking for Librem 5 or Pinephone. They seriously need audience, users and money to get up to speed to be viable alternative. In other words: pay for your tools. Configurable tools for pros cost more. Some people recognize their weaknesses and pick tools accordingly. You want to take this choice away. Please fuck off.
collaborative 5y ago
Your comment makes little sense But one point that is very clear. You belong to a group of users that enjoy the leverage Apple has on developers, and you want it to stay that way
Dah00n 5y ago
You seem to misunderstand app permissions. A sideloaded app doesn't magically avoid the permission system. If you can steal passwords by installing an app via sideload then there's a huge hole in the security of iOS. You seem hellbent on badmouthing sideloading but seem to have a poor understanding of sandboxes and app permissions. The security against what you mention is supposed to come from iOS - not app review teams.
stale2002 5y ago
> there will be a nonzero number of developers Oh ok. So this has nothing to do with your phone and your choices. Instead, what you want to do is force other people to do certain things with their own hard work. Not really sure why you think you should have domain over what other developers do with their own apps. If you don't like those apps, then don't use them. Problem solved.