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I can agree that having the appstore does maintain some quality standards, however it does not guarantee any security, that's not really a good argument conside

I can agree that having the appstore does maintain some quality standards, however it does not guarantee any security, that's not really a good argument considering that their security model still needs to catch up to reach something as good as the web which is completely opened.

Jcowell 5y ago
It’s never been about it the guarantee of security. There is no such thing and never will be. It’s about the degree of security and having a Single App Store has a degree of security that multiple does not.
- realusername 5y ago
  I don't agree that it provides any security and they don't provide any way to verify those claims anyways so it's not like their empty list of verifiable arguments will convince me. The web is currently orders of magnitude safer than the appstore and is designed to run code on demand.
  - Retric 5y ago
    Even if your talking this second many people running unsecured browsers and unpatched system are at significant right now. So looking at every user of each system, the web is inherently less safe.
Retric 5y ago
In terms of security the web might theoretically win, but in terms of privacy the App Store clearly wins. Further, the web really isn’t safe. Kids randomly clicking stuff will still infect PC’s long before those same kids randomly clicking the App Store will cause issues. It’s not even a question of adoption, iOS is a huge target and the App Store actually provides meaningful benefits for the general public.
- realusername 5y ago
  No webapp ever stole your pictures or your agenda details, no webapp ever used some "private api", no webapp ever had access to an advertising id, I could add more items to this list.
  - Retric 5y ago
    We apps have done all that and more including steeling all your Bitcoins. IE has a long and rather storied past including such wonders as ActiveX.
    - realusername 5y ago
      No they did not, unless you count thirdparty browser addons as part of the web (which they are definitely not). And ActiveX is long gone. If you are really worried about security, the answer today is still to avoid using native apps, they have more permissions and are harder to investigate than web apps. But we all know this talk about "security" is just an excuse for corporate control, especially when the web just runs code on demand and is more secure.
      - Retric 5y ago
        You can pretend Flash for example never existed, but ActiveX was native not 3rd party. Further it’s even still supported by Microsoft. The Internet Explorer 11 desktop application will be retired and go out of support on June 15, 2022 (for a list of what’s in scope, see the FAQ). The same IE11 apps and sites you use today can open in Microsoft Edge with Internet Explorer mode. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/DeployEdge/edge-ie-mode https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/DeployEdge/edge-ie-mode Beyond that even Linux users have faced zero days. The web is inherently unsafe which in practice is rarely a issue for the cautious, but that’s only so useful.
        realusername 5y ago
        All of those issues are from legacy browsers nobody should have been used in years. > Beyond that even Linux users have faced zero days. The web is inherently unsafe which in practice is rarely a issue for the cautious, but that’s only so useful. Go ahead and try to find me an exploit working right now to access your local files, they are so rare I can't remember seeing one in a long time. If you are going with zero days, Apple also had an exploit not that long ago where every app could snoop into the data of any other app as well, pretty scary and that also happens to them. Not talking about security exploits but just security design, the permission system is broken by design on native apps. On the web, you do indeed need a zero day to access user files, on a native app, you just need to go ahead and follow the documentation, pretty big difference.

Jcowell 5y ago

It’s never been about it the guarantee of security. There is no such thing and never will be. It’s about the degree of security and having a Single App Store has a degree of security that multiple does not.

realusername 5y ago
I don't agree that it provides any security and they don't provide any way to verify those claims anyways so it's not like their empty list of verifiable arguments will convince me. The web is currently orders of magnitude safer than the appstore and is designed to run code on demand.
- Retric 5y ago
  Even if your talking this second many people running unsecured browsers and unpatched system are at significant right now. So looking at every user of each system, the web is inherently less safe.

Retric 5y ago

In terms of security the web might theoretically win, but in terms of privacy the App Store clearly wins. Further, the web really isn’t safe. Kids randomly clicking stuff will still infect PC’s long before those same kids randomly clicking the App Store will cause issues. It’s not even a question of adoption, iOS is a huge target and the App Store actually provides meaningful benefits for the general public.

realusername 5y ago
No webapp ever stole your pictures or your agenda details, no webapp ever used some "private api", no webapp ever had access to an advertising id, I could add more items to this list.
- Retric 5y ago
  We apps have done all that and more including steeling all your Bitcoins. IE has a long and rather storied past including such wonders as ActiveX.
  - realusername 5y ago
    No they did not, unless you count thirdparty browser addons as part of the web (which they are definitely not). And ActiveX is long gone. If you are really worried about security, the answer today is still to avoid using native apps, they have more permissions and are harder to investigate than web apps. But we all know this talk about "security" is just an excuse for corporate control, especially when the web just runs code on demand and is more secure.
    - Retric 5y ago
      You can pretend Flash for example never existed, but ActiveX was native not 3rd party. Further it’s even still supported by Microsoft. The Internet Explorer 11 desktop application will be retired and go out of support on June 15, 2022 (for a list of what’s in scope, see the FAQ). The same IE11 apps and sites you use today can open in Microsoft Edge with Internet Explorer mode. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/DeployEdge/edge-ie-mode https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/DeployEdge/edge-ie-mode Beyond that even Linux users have faced zero days. The web is inherently unsafe which in practice is rarely a issue for the cautious, but that’s only so useful.
      - realusername 5y ago
        All of those issues are from legacy browsers nobody should have been used in years. > Beyond that even Linux users have faced zero days. The web is inherently unsafe which in practice is rarely a issue for the cautious, but that’s only so useful. Go ahead and try to find me an exploit working right now to access your local files, they are so rare I can't remember seeing one in a long time. If you are going with zero days, Apple also had an exploit not that long ago where every app could snoop into the data of any other app as well, pretty scary and that also happens to them. Not talking about security exploits but just security design, the permission system is broken by design on native apps. On the web, you do indeed need a zero day to access user files, on a native app, you just need to go ahead and follow the documentation, pretty big difference.