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That's debatable, you don't have any more control as a user on apps downloaded from the appstore compared to a sideloaded app. They are running in the exact sam

That's debatable, you don't have any more control as a user on apps downloaded from the appstore compared to a sideloaded app. They are running in the exact same security sandbox and the lack of insights on what the app is doing is there in both cases. For me the most secure medium right now is the web (much more than any appstore) and it's designed to run code on demand.

Retric 5y ago
You’re assuming that App Stores have no influence. Not enough people make choices based on privacy to offset the profits from violating people’s privacy, however gatekeeping App stores have real leverage. What they use that leverage for is a real question. We have plenty of examples where opening things up caused issues. For example the minimum quality of NES games massively declined after Nintendo opened the floodgates.
- realusername 5y ago
  I can agree that having the appstore does maintain some quality standards, however it does not guarantee any security, that's not really a good argument considering that their security model still needs to catch up to reach something as good as the web which is completely opened.
  - Jcowell 5y ago
    It’s never been about it the guarantee of security. There is no such thing and never will be. It’s about the degree of security and having a Single App Store has a degree of security that multiple does not.
    - realusername 5y ago
      I don't agree that it provides any security and they don't provide any way to verify those claims anyways so it's not like their empty list of verifiable arguments will convince me. The web is currently orders of magnitude safer than the appstore and is designed to run code on demand.
      - Retric 5y ago
        Even if your talking this second many people running unsecured browsers and unpatched system are at significant right now. So looking at every user of each system, the web is inherently less safe.
  - Retric 5y ago
    In terms of security the web might theoretically win, but in terms of privacy the App Store clearly wins. Further, the web really isn’t safe. Kids randomly clicking stuff will still infect PC’s long before those same kids randomly clicking the App Store will cause issues. It’s not even a question of adoption, iOS is a huge target and the App Store actually provides meaningful benefits for the general public.
    - realusername 5y ago
      No webapp ever stole your pictures or your agenda details, no webapp ever used some "private api", no webapp ever had access to an advertising id, I could add more items to this list.
      - Retric 5y ago
        We apps have done all that and more including steeling all your Bitcoins. IE has a long and rather storied past including such wonders as ActiveX.
        realusername 5y ago
        No they did not, unless you count thirdparty browser addons as part of the web (which they are definitely not). And ActiveX is long gone. If you are really worried about security, the answer today is still to avoid using native apps, they have more permissions and are harder to investigate than web apps. But we all know this talk about "security" is just an excuse for corporate control, especially when the web just runs code on demand and is more secure.
        Retric 5y ago
        You can pretend Flash for example never existed, but ActiveX was native not 3rd party. Further it’s even still supported by Microsoft. The Internet Explorer 11 desktop application will be retired and go out of support on June 15, 2022 (for a list of what’s in scope, see the FAQ). The same IE11 apps and sites you use today can open in Microsoft Edge with Internet Explorer mode. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/DeployEdge/edge-ie-mode https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/DeployEdge/edge-ie-mode Beyond that even Linux users have faced zero days. The web is inherently unsafe which in practice is rarely a issue for the cautious, but that’s only so useful.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
srtjstjsj 5y ago
The sandbox is extremely limited protection. There's no recourse against misuse of data you grant permission to use, but in the main App Store Apple can kill a deceptive app
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  > The sandbox is extremely limited protection. There's no reason that the OS can't implement sandboxes and protections for user data like that, either. > There's no recourse against misuse of data you grant permission to use, but in the main App Store Apple can kill a deceptive app Apple can also distribute malware via the App Store, like it did with 500 million copies of Xcodeghost[1]. Other mobile app distribution methods can be more secure than the App Store, as well. Users can enjoy the increased efficiency and lower costs that free markets and competition in app distribution, security, and payments can bring. [1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7bbmz/the-fortnite-trial-is-exposing-details-about-the-biggest-iphone-hack-of-all-time https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7bbmz/the-fortnite-trial-is...

Retric 5y ago

You’re assuming that App Stores have no influence. Not enough people make choices based on privacy to offset the profits from violating people’s privacy, however gatekeeping App stores have real leverage. What they use that leverage for is a real question. We have plenty of examples where opening things up caused issues. For example the minimum quality of NES games massively declined after Nintendo opened the floodgates.

realusername 5y ago
I can agree that having the appstore does maintain some quality standards, however it does not guarantee any security, that's not really a good argument considering that their security model still needs to catch up to reach something as good as the web which is completely opened.
- Jcowell 5y ago
  It’s never been about it the guarantee of security. There is no such thing and never will be. It’s about the degree of security and having a Single App Store has a degree of security that multiple does not.
  - realusername 5y ago
    I don't agree that it provides any security and they don't provide any way to verify those claims anyways so it's not like their empty list of verifiable arguments will convince me. The web is currently orders of magnitude safer than the appstore and is designed to run code on demand.
    - Retric 5y ago
      Even if your talking this second many people running unsecured browsers and unpatched system are at significant right now. So looking at every user of each system, the web is inherently less safe.
- Retric 5y ago
  In terms of security the web might theoretically win, but in terms of privacy the App Store clearly wins. Further, the web really isn’t safe. Kids randomly clicking stuff will still infect PC’s long before those same kids randomly clicking the App Store will cause issues. It’s not even a question of adoption, iOS is a huge target and the App Store actually provides meaningful benefits for the general public.
  - realusername 5y ago
    No webapp ever stole your pictures or your agenda details, no webapp ever used some "private api", no webapp ever had access to an advertising id, I could add more items to this list.
    - Retric 5y ago
      We apps have done all that and more including steeling all your Bitcoins. IE has a long and rather storied past including such wonders as ActiveX.
      - realusername 5y ago
        No they did not, unless you count thirdparty browser addons as part of the web (which they are definitely not). And ActiveX is long gone. If you are really worried about security, the answer today is still to avoid using native apps, they have more permissions and are harder to investigate than web apps. But we all know this talk about "security" is just an excuse for corporate control, especially when the web just runs code on demand and is more secure.
        Retric 5y ago
        You can pretend Flash for example never existed, but ActiveX was native not 3rd party. Further it’s even still supported by Microsoft. The Internet Explorer 11 desktop application will be retired and go out of support on June 15, 2022 (for a list of what’s in scope, see the FAQ). The same IE11 apps and sites you use today can open in Microsoft Edge with Internet Explorer mode. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/DeployEdge/edge-ie-mode https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/DeployEdge/edge-ie-mode Beyond that even Linux users have faced zero days. The web is inherently unsafe which in practice is rarely a issue for the cautious, but that’s only so useful.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

srtjstjsj 5y ago

The sandbox is extremely limited protection. There's no recourse against misuse of data you grant permission to use, but in the main App Store Apple can kill a deceptive app

heavyset_go 5y ago
> The sandbox is extremely limited protection. There's no reason that the OS can't implement sandboxes and protections for user data like that, either. > There's no recourse against misuse of data you grant permission to use, but in the main App Store Apple can kill a deceptive app Apple can also distribute malware via the App Store, like it did with 500 million copies of Xcodeghost[1]. Other mobile app distribution methods can be more secure than the App Store, as well. Users can enjoy the increased efficiency and lower costs that free markets and competition in app distribution, security, and payments can bring. [1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7bbmz/the-fortnite-trial-is-exposing-details-about-the-biggest-iphone-hack-of-all-time https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7bbmz/the-fortnite-trial-is...