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I found myself nodding along to almost everything in this article; Two comments: > The problems pulled me in, and I’d get so involved I’d be unable to sleep un

I found myself nodding along to almost everything in this article; Two comments: > The problems pulled me in, and I’d get so involved I’d be unable to sleep until I solved a problem, sometimes escaping into my dreams if I hadn’t found a natural pause point. I can relate to this, so much. It's an incrediblely productive time period when my brain is like this at 7/8/9pm, but inevitably I lose out on a day or two following it. It sounds cliched, but exercise + mindfulness are a hard requirement for me, and not doing either of those inevitably has my brain racing on whatever I'm working on at 4am. > Grey found me at exactly 5pm and forced me to logoff. Nobody ever told me to work late, but nobody ever told me to _stop_ working. If my boss/bosses boss/<etc> came up to me a once or twice and told me "hey, you shouldn't work past <x> PM", particularly in my first few days, _and most importantly_ they left too, that would have set an excellent example on how to have a work-life balance.

lawrjone 5y ago
Yep, this type of gesture speaks volumes. It's saying the company is expecting you to value your personal life and health alongside your work, and demonstrating that it's ok to work however works best for you. As many others have commented, it's not useful or desirable to force people to distance themselves from work they're energised by and want to immerse themselves in. But it's important that the whole company is onboard with that being a choice, not an expectation.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> Nobody ever told me to work late, but nobody ever told me to _stop_ working. If my boss/bosses boss/<etc> came up to me a once or twice and told me "hey, you shouldn't work past <x> PM", particularly in my first few days, _and most importantly_ they left too, that would have set an excellent example on how to have a work-life balance. I've had managers try to nanny my working hours like this. It wasn't fun. I know they thought it was a good gesture, but if I have a spare hour or two in the evening and a good idea I want to try out before bed, I don't want anyone telling me I can't work right now. In fact, I don't want my manager policing my working hours at all, in either direction. What works better is for managers to gather honest feedback about how long tasks took and how many excess hours were being worked during their 1:1s with employees. It's not hard to ask employees how their workload looks and adjust schedules or resource allocation to compensate.
- maccard 5y ago
  I thought I was clear that in my comment it particularly applies at the beginning of a job, and _most importantly_ they're not working after.
- lawrjone 5y ago
  > I've had managers try to nanny my working hours like this. It wasn't fun. I know they thought it was a good gesture, but if I have a spare hour or two in the evening and a good idea I want to try out before bed, I don't want anyone telling me I can't work right now. Author here: I didn't make this clear, but Grey only forced me to go home once. The important message was that I could, if I wanted, claim my own time back. I was free to clock off early, help a friend move out, whatever it might be that my life asked of me. When I wanted to work hard I did, and was never forced not to. But provided I wasn't harming my team, I was free to pick and choose when I did that and disconnect past the hours I was strictly required to be available. Definitely not nannying, in fact I think this is the most adult way you can treat your employees.
piva00 5y ago
> Nobody ever told me to work late, but nobody ever told me to _stop_ working. If my boss/bosses boss/<etc> came up to me a once or twice and told me "hey, you shouldn't work past <x> PM", particularly in my first few days, _and most importantly_ they left too, that would have set an excellent example on how to have a work-life balance. When I moved to Sweden my first manager did exactly that. I was on my 3rd day and working until 18:00, he came to me and asked why I was still at my desk, I should've left an hour ago. He always enjoyed his time off and allowed us to be flexible whenever needed, it was an amazing example to set right at the beginning.
psalminen 5y ago
I had boss who pretty frequently would go around tellong everyone to leave and would make sure he's the last one there. I always really respected his position of forcing work/life balance.
baby 5y ago
One of my previous coworkers who was senior said one day “I try to leave around 5pm. It sends a message that people don’t need to stick around.”

lawrjone 5y ago

Yep, this type of gesture speaks volumes. It's saying the company is expecting you to value your personal life and health alongside your work, and demonstrating that it's ok to work however works best for you. As many others have commented, it's not useful or desirable to force people to distance themselves from work they're energised by and want to immerse themselves in. But it's important that the whole company is onboard with that being a choice, not an expectation.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> Nobody ever told me to work late, but nobody ever told me to _stop_ working. If my boss/bosses boss/<etc> came up to me a once or twice and told me "hey, you shouldn't work past <x> PM", particularly in my first few days, _and most importantly_ they left too, that would have set an excellent example on how to have a work-life balance. I've had managers try to nanny my working hours like this. It wasn't fun. I know they thought it was a good gesture, but if I have a spare hour or two in the evening and a good idea I want to try out before bed, I don't want anyone telling me I can't work right now. In fact, I don't want my manager policing my working hours at all, in either direction. What works better is for managers to gather honest feedback about how long tasks took and how many excess hours were being worked during their 1:1s with employees. It's not hard to ask employees how their workload looks and adjust schedules or resource allocation to compensate.

maccard 5y ago
I thought I was clear that in my comment it particularly applies at the beginning of a job, and _most importantly_ they're not working after.
lawrjone 5y ago
> I've had managers try to nanny my working hours like this. It wasn't fun. I know they thought it was a good gesture, but if I have a spare hour or two in the evening and a good idea I want to try out before bed, I don't want anyone telling me I can't work right now. Author here: I didn't make this clear, but Grey only forced me to go home once. The important message was that I could, if I wanted, claim my own time back. I was free to clock off early, help a friend move out, whatever it might be that my life asked of me. When I wanted to work hard I did, and was never forced not to. But provided I wasn't harming my team, I was free to pick and choose when I did that and disconnect past the hours I was strictly required to be available. Definitely not nannying, in fact I think this is the most adult way you can treat your employees.

piva00 5y ago

psalminen 5y ago

I had boss who pretty frequently would go around tellong everyone to leave and would make sure he's the last one there. I always really respected his position of forcing work/life balance.

baby 5y ago

One of my previous coworkers who was senior said one day “I try to leave around 5pm. It sends a message that people don’t need to stick around.”