25 ms·

The problem is that he has no qualifications or data to indicate that it is effective for this specific use. Invermectin was developed as an anti-parasite trea

by evgen 5y ago

The problem is that he has no qualifications or data to indicate that it is effective for this specific use. Invermectin was developed as an anti-parasite treatment as a variant of something discovered by the microbiologist in question. Let's be perfectly clear about this: Satoshi Omura is not a doctor, he is a microbiologist. He has no specific expertise when it comes to in vivo application of invermectin and absolutely no expertise regarding covid-19. I have no problem with him providing his opinion, but I also don't care if an airline ignores my car mechanic when it comes to maintenance of the latest Airbus.

prohobo 5y ago
Here's a problem I'm having with these discussions: first of all, none of the people involved - like you - are qualified to make a judgement one way or another. What we're left with is just straight up following the rules of scientific inquiry. So, just going at it from that perspective: you're clearly in the wrong. Anyone who might have information that helps solve a problem should be able to come forward. Anyone who wants to stop that is a problem. As for your skepticism - disparaging credentialed scientists as conspiracy theorists - you also have that ass-backwards. In any scientific discussion, it's the people who have vested interests (financial, institutional, personal) who you most need to be skeptical of. Satoshi Omura has nothing to gain from this, but the pharmaceutical companies definitely do. So what are you trying to do here?
moralestapia 5y ago
>The problem is that he has no qualifications or data to indicate that it is effective for this specific use. Whew. From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_%C5%8Cmura https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_%C5%8Cmura 1958, Science teacher at Tokyo Metropolitan Sumida Tech High School. 1960, Enrolled in the Tokyo University of Science (TUS) and studied sciences. ~1968, M.S. degree from TUS and his Ph.D. in Pharmaceutical Sciences (literally!) from the University of Tokyo. 1970, Ph.D. in Chemistry at TUS 1973, He became a director of the antibiotic laboratory at Kitasato University. "Since the 1970s, Ōmura has discovered more than 480 new compounds, of which 25 kinds of drugs and reagents are in use." 2015, Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine jointly with William C. Campbell and Tu Youyou for discoveries concerning a novel therapy against infections caused by roundworm parasites. Let me get this straight, so now you and your deluded mind are, somehow, suggesting that this person is not qualified to talk about Ivermectin? Just stop it, really, you're making a fool of yourself.
- perl4ever 5y ago
  What do you think of Linus Pauling's views on vitamin C curing cancer, the common cold, angina pectoris, etc? "the only person to have been awarded two unshared Nobel Prizes" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Pauling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Pauling Or, Isaac Newton's treatment for the plague: "the best is a toad suspended by the legs in a chimney for three days, which at last vomited up earth with various insects in it, on to a dish of yellow wax, and shortly after died. Combining powdered toad with the excretions and serum made into lozenges and worn about the affected area drove away the contagion and drew out the poison" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton These are some of the best scientists of all time. OF ALL TIME! How could you doubt them? Also, are you under the impression that covid-19 is a "parasitic infection"?
  - moralestapia 5y ago
    >These are some of the best scientists of all time. OF ALL TIME! How could you doubt them? It's not about that. Forget about the Nobel Prize, the guy still has 50+(!) or so years doing pharma research, plus he discovered Ivermectin, wouldn't you want to hear what he thinks about it? Arguments from authority are wrong, I know, but experts DO exist in any given field and you can't just dismiss what they're saying.
    - perl4ever 5y ago
      > experts DO exist in any given field and you can't just dismiss what they're saying Yes, ok, so isn't "parasitic infections" arguably a different field than coronaviruses? That's why I saw a parallel with Pauling and Newton. What am I missing? The fact is, I have no idea about the science. Right now I dismiss it because it seems like mobs of people pop up in recurring threads to promote this thing, as if orchestrated. Every few days or weeks it seems like there is a new thing that "they" (mainstream media or big tech) are trying to suppress. If it was being suppressed, I wouldn't feel like there was a firehose of it directed at me. And if the interest in it was organic and evidence based, then the discussions in one thread ought to cause the next thread to be different. But it seems like groundhog day - either people don't evolve their views, or there's an influx of new people.

by evgen 5y ago

prohobo 5y ago

Here's a problem I'm having with these discussions: first of all, none of the people involved - like you - are qualified to make a judgement one way or another. What we're left with is just straight up following the rules of scientific inquiry. So, just going at it from that perspective: you're clearly in the wrong. Anyone who might have information that helps solve a problem should be able to come forward. Anyone who wants to stop that is a problem. As for your skepticism - disparaging credentialed scientists as conspiracy theorists - you also have that ass-backwards. In any scientific discussion, it's the people who have vested interests (financial, institutional, personal) who you most need to be skeptical of. Satoshi Omura has nothing to gain from this, but the pharmaceutical companies definitely do. So what are you trying to do here?

moralestapia 5y ago

>The problem is that he has no qualifications or data to indicate that it is effective for this specific use. Whew. From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_%C5%8Cmura https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_%C5%8Cmura 1958, Science teacher at Tokyo Metropolitan Sumida Tech High School. 1960, Enrolled in the Tokyo University of Science (TUS) and studied sciences. ~1968, M.S. degree from TUS and his Ph.D. in Pharmaceutical Sciences (literally!) from the University of Tokyo. 1970, Ph.D. in Chemistry at TUS 1973, He became a director of the antibiotic laboratory at Kitasato University. "Since the 1970s, Ōmura has discovered more than 480 new compounds, of which 25 kinds of drugs and reagents are in use." 2015, Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine jointly with William C. Campbell and Tu Youyou for discoveries concerning a novel therapy against infections caused by roundworm parasites. Let me get this straight, so now you and your deluded mind are, somehow, suggesting that this person is not qualified to talk about Ivermectin? Just stop it, really, you're making a fool of yourself.

perl4ever 5y ago
What do you think of Linus Pauling's views on vitamin C curing cancer, the common cold, angina pectoris, etc? "the only person to have been awarded two unshared Nobel Prizes" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Pauling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Pauling Or, Isaac Newton's treatment for the plague: "the best is a toad suspended by the legs in a chimney for three days, which at last vomited up earth with various insects in it, on to a dish of yellow wax, and shortly after died. Combining powdered toad with the excretions and serum made into lozenges and worn about the affected area drove away the contagion and drew out the poison" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton These are some of the best scientists of all time. OF ALL TIME! How could you doubt them? Also, are you under the impression that covid-19 is a "parasitic infection"?
- moralestapia 5y ago
  >These are some of the best scientists of all time. OF ALL TIME! How could you doubt them? It's not about that. Forget about the Nobel Prize, the guy still has 50+(!) or so years doing pharma research, plus he discovered Ivermectin, wouldn't you want to hear what he thinks about it? Arguments from authority are wrong, I know, but experts DO exist in any given field and you can't just dismiss what they're saying.
  - perl4ever 5y ago
    > experts DO exist in any given field and you can't just dismiss what they're saying Yes, ok, so isn't "parasitic infections" arguably a different field than coronaviruses? That's why I saw a parallel with Pauling and Newton. What am I missing? The fact is, I have no idea about the science. Right now I dismiss it because it seems like mobs of people pop up in recurring threads to promote this thing, as if orchestrated. Every few days or weeks it seems like there is a new thing that "they" (mainstream media or big tech) are trying to suppress. If it was being suppressed, I wouldn't feel like there was a firehose of it directed at me. And if the interest in it was organic and evidence based, then the discussions in one thread ought to cause the next thread to be different. But it seems like groundhog day - either people don't evolve their views, or there's an influx of new people.