4 ms·

I think it is probably not possible to have both “true information” and “control of information” simultaneously. I suspect that this is a false choice, akin to

I think it is probably not possible to have both “true information” and “control of information” simultaneously. I suspect that this is a false choice, akin to “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”. If we may observe history, we see that societies where one is not free to speak do not have more “true beliefs”, and indeed believe many things we think of as nuts.

tzs 5y ago
History trivia: the "essential Liberty" Franklin was talking about was not any personal or individual liberty. It was the liberty of the government to tax property. The "purchase" he was talking about was literally buying things with money. The Pennsylvania Assembly wanted to raise money to defend the frontier during the French and Indian war by taxing land. The Governor kept vetoing this at the behest of the Penn family, which owned a lot of land that would be hit by any such tax, each time finding some objection that Franklin and the Assembly found made little sense. Franklin wrote to the governor arguing that the Assembly should not have to give up its liberty to exercise taxing power over the Penn family lands in order to raise money for defense.
- AbrahamParangi 5y ago
  Yes, the common usage of the quote is more lyrical than Franklin's usage. I didn't quote him specifically because it's sort of a misquote used in his sense.
  - shadowgovt 5y ago
    Without the appeal to authority of citing Franklin though, it's not a quote that holds as much water when inspected on its own merits. Trading liberty for safety is the crux of social contract theory, so the absolutist interpretation of the quote is clearly devoid of worth. We can instead focus on "essential" and "temporary," and then perhaps it has value but we must then argue about the meaning of those words. ... Is the freedom to shout falsehoods with Facebook's megaphone without Facebook weighing in "essential?" How "temporary" is the safety we gain from Facebook tossing fact-checks on posts?

tzs 5y ago

History trivia: the "essential Liberty" Franklin was talking about was not any personal or individual liberty. It was the liberty of the government to tax property. The "purchase" he was talking about was literally buying things with money. The Pennsylvania Assembly wanted to raise money to defend the frontier during the French and Indian war by taxing land. The Governor kept vetoing this at the behest of the Penn family, which owned a lot of land that would be hit by any such tax, each time finding some objection that Franklin and the Assembly found made little sense. Franklin wrote to the governor arguing that the Assembly should not have to give up its liberty to exercise taxing power over the Penn family lands in order to raise money for defense.

AbrahamParangi 5y ago
Yes, the common usage of the quote is more lyrical than Franklin's usage. I didn't quote him specifically because it's sort of a misquote used in his sense.
- shadowgovt 5y ago
  Without the appeal to authority of citing Franklin though, it's not a quote that holds as much water when inspected on its own merits. Trading liberty for safety is the crux of social contract theory, so the absolutist interpretation of the quote is clearly devoid of worth. We can instead focus on "essential" and "temporary," and then perhaps it has value but we must then argue about the meaning of those words. ... Is the freedom to shout falsehoods with Facebook's megaphone without Facebook weighing in "essential?" How "temporary" is the safety we gain from Facebook tossing fact-checks on posts?