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The harsh truth for a lot of license purists (myself included) is that nobody cares about GPL/copyleft when push comes to shove. It’s a purely PR thing. Nobody

The harsh truth for a lot of license purists (myself included) is that nobody cares about GPL/copyleft when push comes to shove. It’s a purely PR thing. Nobody will ever put energy into taking legal action. I know several programmers working at multi million/billion dollar companies that use GPL/AGPL libraries within completely closed source codebases. Some of these products are shipped as DLLs/binaries rather than hidden behind web services, and even still, nothing has ever come out of it as far as license enforcement. Your company’s legal department will not look for these things proactively. Copilot may be the Napster moment that changes this, though.

jeremyjh 5y ago
Maybe you and your friends do not care, but I do. Do you actually think there has never been an enforcement action taken on GPL code? Did you even Google it before vomiting this nonsense on the screen?
- murgindrag 5y ago
  I care, but I don't deny the reality we have an enforcement issue. That's not just GPL. That's most businesses, schools, and many individuals. I would guess 0.1% of GPL violations have as much as a legal demand letter, let alone a law suit.
- geschwindner 5y ago
  No need to be so combative, Jeremy. I care deeply about licenses, and as a contributor to some (A)GPL licensed works, I’d love for people to follow the license to the tee. The truth is that stealing open source code does not have the same monetary repercussions as stealing closed source code. Nowhere close to it. You have to acknowledge that there is an enforcement issue, either due to monetary or motivational (Linux) reasons. Have there been license enforcements? Yes, a small number. But nowhere close to enough to make a team with a deadline think twice. Compared to stealing a competitor’s code, the expected value of the punishment for using some GPL code quietly is a rounding error.
syshum 5y ago
This is simply false, organizations like Software Freedom Conservancy has taken legal action against companies before, they also do alot behind the scenes to get companies to comply with GPL before it needs to become a legal action However This is one of the complaints that is leveraged by many in the Linux community, as Linux Foundation seems to take the stance you have outlined. Under no circumstance it seems will they enforce the licensing for the projects under their banner, that is sad but also not shocking since they are not Business Organization with some of the largest closed source companies in the world backing their existence...
tlamponi 5y ago
Yes, copyleft violations increased, and often gotten also quite brass and arrogant in the last decade or so. > I know several programmers working at multi million/billion dollar companies who use GPL/AGPL libraries within completely closed source codebases. Some of these products are shipped as DLLs/binaries rather than hidden behind web services, and even still, nothing has ever come out of it as far as license enforcement. Your company’s legal department will not look for these things proactively. There are companies (e.g., those producing mainly FOSS themselves) and organizations who do care, for example the SFC: https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/enforcement-strategy.html https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/enforcement-st... You can also allow them to pursue violations on your, or a project, behalf: https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/ https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/ Even if it may sound naïve, I still hope & believe they take all those proprietary leeches down, ideally bleeding those out, that still not want to comply.
jollybean 5y ago
On the other hand, some companies are so skittish they won't let you download GPL software. By using GPL where you shouldn't you're putting your whole company at risk. It's only a matter of time before lawyers come along smelling blood.
hypertele-Xii 5y ago
It's your personal duty to report the violations you claim to know about. Blow that whistle. Otherwise, you're accessory.
throwaway2037 5y ago
<<Woah>> If this claim is real: Please, please, please someone blow the whistle. Can we get some of these DLLs and get people to extract strings or reverse engineer to extract GPL/AGPL code? This seems entirely possible. EFF would surely help with the legal side.

jeremyjh 5y ago

Maybe you and your friends do not care, but I do. Do you actually think there has never been an enforcement action taken on GPL code? Did you even Google it before vomiting this nonsense on the screen?

murgindrag 5y ago
I care, but I don't deny the reality we have an enforcement issue. That's not just GPL. That's most businesses, schools, and many individuals. I would guess 0.1% of GPL violations have as much as a legal demand letter, let alone a law suit.
geschwindner 5y ago
No need to be so combative, Jeremy. I care deeply about licenses, and as a contributor to some (A)GPL licensed works, I’d love for people to follow the license to the tee. The truth is that stealing open source code does not have the same monetary repercussions as stealing closed source code. Nowhere close to it. You have to acknowledge that there is an enforcement issue, either due to monetary or motivational (Linux) reasons. Have there been license enforcements? Yes, a small number. But nowhere close to enough to make a team with a deadline think twice. Compared to stealing a competitor’s code, the expected value of the punishment for using some GPL code quietly is a rounding error.

syshum 5y ago

This is simply false, organizations like Software Freedom Conservancy has taken legal action against companies before, they also do alot behind the scenes to get companies to comply with GPL before it needs to become a legal action However This is one of the complaints that is leveraged by many in the Linux community, as Linux Foundation seems to take the stance you have outlined. Under no circumstance it seems will they enforce the licensing for the projects under their banner, that is sad but also not shocking since they are not Business Organization with some of the largest closed source companies in the world backing their existence...

tlamponi 5y ago

Yes, copyleft violations increased, and often gotten also quite brass and arrogant in the last decade or so. > I know several programmers working at multi million/billion dollar companies who use GPL/AGPL libraries within completely closed source codebases. Some of these products are shipped as DLLs/binaries rather than hidden behind web services, and even still, nothing has ever come out of it as far as license enforcement. Your company’s legal department will not look for these things proactively. There are companies (e.g., those producing mainly FOSS themselves) and organizations who do care, for example the SFC: https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/enforcement-strategy.html https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/enforcement-st... You can also allow them to pursue violations on your, or a project, behalf: https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/ https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/ Even if it may sound naïve, I still hope & believe they take all those proprietary leeches down, ideally bleeding those out, that still not want to comply.

jollybean 5y ago

On the other hand, some companies are so skittish they won't let you download GPL software. By using GPL where you shouldn't you're putting your whole company at risk. It's only a matter of time before lawyers come along smelling blood.

hypertele-Xii 5y ago

It's your personal duty to report the violations you claim to know about. Blow that whistle. Otherwise, you're accessory.

throwaway2037 5y ago

<<Woah>> If this claim is real: Please, please, please someone blow the whistle. Can we get some of these DLLs and get people to extract strings or reverse engineer to extract GPL/AGPL code? This seems entirely possible. EFF would surely help with the legal side.