3 ms·

I’ve made a serious effort to switch away - using a retina Mac pro with Ubuntu, and a bunch of raspberry PIs. I love Linux, and I love the PIs, but it can’t se

by zepto 5y ago

I’ve made a serious effort to switch away - using a retina Mac pro with Ubuntu, and a bunch of raspberry PIs. I love Linux, and I love the PIs, but it can’t see any reason to stick with the Ubuntu desktop. When a pro level M1 or M2 iMac is released, I will be moving back.

smoldesu 5y ago
> i can’t see any reason to stick with the Ubuntu desktop Then don't. Linux has hundreds of alternative desktops that you can install and try out in minutes. KDE, i3, Awesome, bspwm, Openbox and many many more are all at your fingertips.
- zepto 5y ago
  I have experimented with this stuff for decades. It’s all frankly half baked and clunky, and the time investment in configuration is insane. Yes, you can find individual features that are better than MacOS spread across them, but you can’t get good design, aesthetics and features in any single one of them. You can certainly get by with it, but why would I want to just ‘get by’?
  - ficklepoet 5y ago
    It's a two way street. Why would I want to "get by" without a package manager, or "get by" without 32-bit libraries, or "get by" without a functional graphics API? I'm the user: the choice should be mine. If Apple doesn't present that choice, I don't consider Apple an option. Simple as that. As a developer, these points are non-negotiable. Apple has built computers for 30 years now, they should be well aware of that.
    - zepto 5y ago
      > Why would I want to "get by" without a package manager, You don’t have to on MacOS. > or "get by" without 32-bit libraries Why would you want 32 bit libraries? 32-bit support was also ditched in popular Linux distributions (Ubuntu, Fedora, Red Hat) in the same year as MacOS. > or "get by" without a functional graphics API? To claim there is no functional graphics API on MacOS is utterly absurd.
  - hughrr 5y ago
    Oh yes so much this. 20 years here being told that today is the day of Linux on the desktop. Like hell. Apple stuff is consistently good. It's not perfect but there's not really anything that kicks you in the balls every day to the point it makes you want to burn all your technology and live in the woods. About 5 minutes with any recently Gnome release on a Linux laptop makes me want to do that. Linux is always 50% done. That last 30% to get it to Apple's 80% done is boring so they just rewrite everything again or fork some new clothes for the emperor. The worst experience is windows. There's several layers and each one gets to about 33% done and is replaced with a new one. All the old layers sit there like rings in a tree, occasionally having to be gouged out to fix an obscure issue.
    - rewgs 5y ago
      Yup, could not agree more. My approach with Linux has been to not even try to make the Linux desktop try and compete with macOS or even Windows. Instead, I really like the "OS as IDE" approach, which has caused me to settle into using most of the Suckless stuff -- dwm, st, dmenu. Live in your terminal and keep each application's function and jurisdiction as small as possible, and Linux is really great. For programming. Only.
      - hughrr 5y ago
        Agree also. I do a lot of Linux dev work and use basically vim and tmux. From macOS!
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      You'd probably be surprised to hear that I mostly agree with what you're saying. But here's the difference: MacOS will never feel like home to me. I've used it for months, and tried my hardest to make it's workflow feel natural. Every time I tried to rationalize a concern with the OS though, I'm buried by workarounds/paid apps/subscription services that will supposedly fix the issue for me. Unfortunately, that makes the last 20% of MacOS feel so frustrating to fill: you're always taking one step forwards and two steps back, fighting against a company that wants to take control away from you with every update. On Linux, I just have a script that I run that sets everything up the way I want it. I'll admit, it took a few hours to make (and has received a few updates over the years), but it feels much closer to that "100%" mark than a fully-customized Mac to me. Plus, I'd rather not rely on the whims of yet another "move fast and break things" company jockeying to take over more and more of my digital life. I'm good here.

by zepto 5y ago

smoldesu 5y ago

> i can’t see any reason to stick with the Ubuntu desktop Then don't. Linux has hundreds of alternative desktops that you can install and try out in minutes. KDE, i3, Awesome, bspwm, Openbox and many many more are all at your fingertips.

zepto 5y ago
I have experimented with this stuff for decades. It’s all frankly half baked and clunky, and the time investment in configuration is insane. Yes, you can find individual features that are better than MacOS spread across them, but you can’t get good design, aesthetics and features in any single one of them. You can certainly get by with it, but why would I want to just ‘get by’?
- ficklepoet 5y ago
  It's a two way street. Why would I want to "get by" without a package manager, or "get by" without 32-bit libraries, or "get by" without a functional graphics API? I'm the user: the choice should be mine. If Apple doesn't present that choice, I don't consider Apple an option. Simple as that. As a developer, these points are non-negotiable. Apple has built computers for 30 years now, they should be well aware of that.
  - zepto 5y ago
    > Why would I want to "get by" without a package manager, You don’t have to on MacOS. > or "get by" without 32-bit libraries Why would you want 32 bit libraries? 32-bit support was also ditched in popular Linux distributions (Ubuntu, Fedora, Red Hat) in the same year as MacOS. > or "get by" without a functional graphics API? To claim there is no functional graphics API on MacOS is utterly absurd.
- hughrr 5y ago
  Oh yes so much this. 20 years here being told that today is the day of Linux on the desktop. Like hell. Apple stuff is consistently good. It's not perfect but there's not really anything that kicks you in the balls every day to the point it makes you want to burn all your technology and live in the woods. About 5 minutes with any recently Gnome release on a Linux laptop makes me want to do that. Linux is always 50% done. That last 30% to get it to Apple's 80% done is boring so they just rewrite everything again or fork some new clothes for the emperor. The worst experience is windows. There's several layers and each one gets to about 33% done and is replaced with a new one. All the old layers sit there like rings in a tree, occasionally having to be gouged out to fix an obscure issue.
  - rewgs 5y ago
    Yup, could not agree more. My approach with Linux has been to not even try to make the Linux desktop try and compete with macOS or even Windows. Instead, I really like the "OS as IDE" approach, which has caused me to settle into using most of the Suckless stuff -- dwm, st, dmenu. Live in your terminal and keep each application's function and jurisdiction as small as possible, and Linux is really great. For programming. Only.
    - hughrr 5y ago
      Agree also. I do a lot of Linux dev work and use basically vim and tmux. From macOS!
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    You'd probably be surprised to hear that I mostly agree with what you're saying. But here's the difference: MacOS will never feel like home to me. I've used it for months, and tried my hardest to make it's workflow feel natural. Every time I tried to rationalize a concern with the OS though, I'm buried by workarounds/paid apps/subscription services that will supposedly fix the issue for me. Unfortunately, that makes the last 20% of MacOS feel so frustrating to fill: you're always taking one step forwards and two steps back, fighting against a company that wants to take control away from you with every update. On Linux, I just have a script that I run that sets everything up the way I want it. I'll admit, it took a few hours to make (and has received a few updates over the years), but it feels much closer to that "100%" mark than a fully-customized Mac to me. Plus, I'd rather not rely on the whims of yet another "move fast and break things" company jockeying to take over more and more of my digital life. I'm good here.