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>Software engineers in all other major countries earns about $30K - $60K on average. These countries include: Japan, China, Australia, Germany, Canada. How are

>Software engineers in all other major countries earns about $30K - $60K on average. These countries include: Japan, China, Australia, Germany, Canada. How are salaries so low there? How do they plan on having competitive tech markets?

rmah 5y ago
They're not, the author's assumptions are out of date. $30k is what a mid-level software engineer at a major firm in India will make.
serial_dev 5y ago
These numbers don't seem to be correct. I have around 5 years experience, living in Munich, immigrant, and I earn around 95K (USD). There is no indication that my salary is significantly above average amongst software developers with similar experience. Not a FAANG company, and I earned this money both at a startup and both at an established German company.
- fuzzy2 5y ago
  Munich is very expensive so you get appropriate money. Rural areas pull down the average a lot. As a software engineer (not architect, senior, team lead or whatever) your salary is at the very top.
monkeybutton 5y ago
Its a struggle. >graduates from the Universities of Toronto, British Columbia and Waterloo in 2015 and 2016 revealed 66 per cent of software engineering and 30 per cent of computer science students were leaving Canada for work after graduation. https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/business/2021/5/21/1_5438494.html https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/business/2021/5/21/1_543849... I wonder how accurate the quoted average salaries are for Canada though. The high end is what a junior developer with no work history can expect after graduating. Senior developers here regularly make 100k+.
- kyawzazaw 5y ago
  As a new grad down the border, you can make more than that.
yardie 5y ago
In my experience, as an American expat working in the EU, these countries have an extremely low level of churn. In most cases the only way to get a raise is to be hired away. So most developers put up with the annual CoL raise of 3-5%. Instead of changing companies every 2 years with a $10k-50k bump you stay 10 years in one company and eventually get a $10k over that period. I know most Americans feel its the strong worker protections in the EU that cause the pay stagnation. It's far more complex than that. SWEs can leave for another company whenever they want. In some cases there are deep structural issues* that can keep you at a company. * One example, in France there is no upper limit on the caution for an apartment. It can be as high as 20k-50k€. If you need to rent a place and don't come from a rich family your employer can provide the caution. Now that your employer has solved your housing problem you feel a certain loyalty to them and the 10-20 year career starts.
- heavenlyblue 5y ago
  What is the caution for an appartment?
  - DaveExeter 5y ago
    caution bancaire (fr) = Bank guarantee (en) Like a security deposit.
- KptMarchewa 5y ago
  That does not feel true to me in Poland. I'd say average is close to what's expressed here on HN, about 2 years in a job. More junior people switch more often, and more senior less often - but also can switch pretty fast if the job is not a good fit. I don't think worker rights play a role here, because I've never seen software engineer being fired for a purely performance reason.
- cherryturnover 5y ago
  >It can be as high as 20k-50k€. Meanwhile in NYC they're knocking off few months rent and dropping the security deposits just to get people back there.

rmah 5y ago

They're not, the author's assumptions are out of date. $30k is what a mid-level software engineer at a major firm in India will make.

serial_dev 5y ago

These numbers don't seem to be correct. I have around 5 years experience, living in Munich, immigrant, and I earn around 95K (USD). There is no indication that my salary is significantly above average amongst software developers with similar experience. Not a FAANG company, and I earned this money both at a startup and both at an established German company.

fuzzy2 5y ago
Munich is very expensive so you get appropriate money. Rural areas pull down the average a lot. As a software engineer (not architect, senior, team lead or whatever) your salary is at the very top.

monkeybutton 5y ago

Its a struggle. >graduates from the Universities of Toronto, British Columbia and Waterloo in 2015 and 2016 revealed 66 per cent of software engineering and 30 per cent of computer science students were leaving Canada for work after graduation. https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/business/2021/5/21/1_5438494.html https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/business/2021/5/21/1_543849... I wonder how accurate the quoted average salaries are for Canada though. The high end is what a junior developer with no work history can expect after graduating. Senior developers here regularly make 100k+.

kyawzazaw 5y ago
As a new grad down the border, you can make more than that.

yardie 5y ago

In my experience, as an American expat working in the EU, these countries have an extremely low level of churn. In most cases the only way to get a raise is to be hired away. So most developers put up with the annual CoL raise of 3-5%. Instead of changing companies every 2 years with a $10k-50k bump you stay 10 years in one company and eventually get a $10k over that period. I know most Americans feel its the strong worker protections in the EU that cause the pay stagnation. It's far more complex than that. SWEs can leave for another company whenever they want. In some cases there are deep structural issues* that can keep you at a company. * One example, in France there is no upper limit on the caution for an apartment. It can be as high as 20k-50k€. If you need to rent a place and don't come from a rich family your employer can provide the caution. Now that your employer has solved your housing problem you feel a certain loyalty to them and the 10-20 year career starts.

heavenlyblue 5y ago
What is the caution for an appartment?
- DaveExeter 5y ago
  caution bancaire (fr) = Bank guarantee (en) Like a security deposit.
KptMarchewa 5y ago
That does not feel true to me in Poland. I'd say average is close to what's expressed here on HN, about 2 years in a job. More junior people switch more often, and more senior less often - but also can switch pretty fast if the job is not a good fit. I don't think worker rights play a role here, because I've never seen software engineer being fired for a purely performance reason.
cherryturnover 5y ago
>It can be as high as 20k-50k€. Meanwhile in NYC they're knocking off few months rent and dropping the security deposits just to get people back there.