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The claim is not that some municipality has gone broke, it’s that they are underwater and only staying afloat by continuing the ponzu scheme. This post had som

The claim is not that some municipality has gone broke, it’s that they are underwater and only staying afloat by continuing the ponzu scheme. This post had some case studies: https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2011/6/14/the-growth-ponzi-scheme-part-2.html https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2011/6/14/the-growth-pon... one quote: > A small, rural road is paved, with the costs of the surfacing project split evenly between the property owners and the city. We asked a simple question: Based on the taxes being paid by the property owners along this road, how long will it take the city to recoup its 50% contribution. The answer: 37 years. Of course, the road is only expected to last 20 to 25 years. I’m not an expert here so I’d be interested in evidence to the contrary. But this sounds like a more nuanced point than the GPs TLDR.

doikor 5y ago
This why here in Finland a lot of rural roads are being converted back to dirt. Basically keep the asphalt for as long as it can be with cheap repairs and once it needs to be redone just rip it off and put some gravel. Maintenance for these is cheap using existing infrastructure (trucks and loaders that the municipality already owns for winter/snow). Basically every spring just relevel it with a blade attached to a truck and add a bit of gravel.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
  I'd imagine that is bad for the environment, due to more/faster abrasion of the tires. More microplastics.
  - spurgu 5y ago
    Rural roads = not that much traffic.
  - theptip 5y ago
    Is tire wear => microplastics an environmental concern that has been quantified? This is a new concept to me and I have no idea how to weigh the potential costs of this factor.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
      You could just put the 3 words without the => between them into some search thing and get many hits. It's significant. Maybe less so if country roads with low traffic as poster downwards suggested. But tyres are soft, so it seems only logically they are abraded faster by gravel which is harder and has sharper edges, than a more flat surface.
AlgorithmicTime 5y ago
That's a small rural road, not a suburban road. Based on my property taxes, if there were no other spending pulled from them, you could repave the 130 feet of road in front of my house about every third or fourth year! And that's discounting my neighbors across the street, who would presumably pay for half the road.
sokoloff 5y ago
When my city digs up all the streets near me to replace the sewer, storm, and many of the water pipes, how long until it recoups those costs via those services? At some point, cities make infrastructure expenditures and don’t treat them as a bond investment directly against future income. This means some people pay more than they get and others get more than they pay. https://www.cambridgema.gov/-/media/Files/publicworksdepartment/Engineering/10yearsewerplan/CambridgeDPW_SewerDrain10YP_2019.pdf https://www.cambridgema.gov/-/media/Files/publicworksdepartm...

doikor 5y ago

This why here in Finland a lot of rural roads are being converted back to dirt. Basically keep the asphalt for as long as it can be with cheap repairs and once it needs to be redone just rip it off and put some gravel. Maintenance for these is cheap using existing infrastructure (trucks and loaders that the municipality already owns for winter/snow). Basically every spring just relevel it with a blade attached to a truck and add a bit of gravel.

LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
I'd imagine that is bad for the environment, due to more/faster abrasion of the tires. More microplastics.
- spurgu 5y ago
  Rural roads = not that much traffic.
- theptip 5y ago
  Is tire wear => microplastics an environmental concern that has been quantified? This is a new concept to me and I have no idea how to weigh the potential costs of this factor.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    You could just put the 3 words without the => between them into some search thing and get many hits. It's significant. Maybe less so if country roads with low traffic as poster downwards suggested. But tyres are soft, so it seems only logically they are abraded faster by gravel which is harder and has sharper edges, than a more flat surface.

AlgorithmicTime 5y ago

That's a small rural road, not a suburban road. Based on my property taxes, if there were no other spending pulled from them, you could repave the 130 feet of road in front of my house about every third or fourth year! And that's discounting my neighbors across the street, who would presumably pay for half the road.

sokoloff 5y ago

When my city digs up all the streets near me to replace the sewer, storm, and many of the water pipes, how long until it recoups those costs via those services? At some point, cities make infrastructure expenditures and don’t treat them as a bond investment directly against future income. This means some people pay more than they get and others get more than they pay. https://www.cambridgema.gov/-/media/Files/publicworksdepartment/Engineering/10yearsewerplan/CambridgeDPW_SewerDrain10YP_2019.pdf https://www.cambridgema.gov/-/media/Files/publicworksdepartm...