9 ms·
For those unfamiliar with Strong Towns, here’s a best-effort summary of what they do: Strong Towns is a non-partisan non-profit that advocates for governments
by flaque 5y ago
For those unfamiliar with Strong Towns, here’s a best-effort summary of what they do:
Strong Towns is a non-partisan non-profit that advocates for governments to build financially solvent towns. Many cities are perpetually broke because they owe more money in maintenance burden (fixing roads, pipes, etc) than they bring in through tax revenue.
This happens because towns in North America tend to build out large neighborhoods all at once (think: suburbia). At the start, the developers pay for all the infrastructure, and then “give” it to the city to maintain.
At first, everything seems fine. The city gets plenty of new tax revenue! But come 20 or 30 years later, it turns out that the tax revenue of the new development is not enough to replace the roads, fix the pipes, and so on.
And so to pay for the repairs, the city then builds yet another neighborhood in the same strategy to collect the initial tax revenue and use it to pay for the repairs of the previous neighborhood. It’s effectively a Ponzi scheme (as referenced in the article).
The gist is that many low-density spread-out suburban neighborhoods with expensive infrastructure are a huge cost center for a city. And since most North American cities build this way, we have a lot of cities that are “functionally bankrupt” or will be soon.
If you're a systems thinker who lives in a town that can't seem to fix it's potholes, you may want to check out the book they've published with the same name: "Strong Towns".
(Adapted from a previous Strong Towns post)
- newaccount2021 5y agocities broke the contract. They were supposed to keep dense neighborhoods clean and safe. They failed. In LA, people living in the heart of downtown must contend with crazy levels of homelessness and garbage. In Portland, you must contend with nightly riots. Crime. Car theft. Old women getting sucker punched. Needles. Human waste. Move to the sticks and let the cities fail.
- refurb 5y agoHow does this jive with say the Van Ness expansion in SF? It’s taken way longer and gone way over budget because the work is being done in a high density corridor with numerous utilities and such that have to be relocated. Apparently they’re finding stuff they never knew was there. The same road widening would be cheap in a less dense area.
- auggierose 5y agoBut try paying for the cheaper road with the tax revenue of the 5 people helped by the broader road.
- refurb 5y agoNot much difference? Widening the SF street is running into billions.
- auggierose 5y agoWhich can be paid for on a $12.6 billion yearly budget (if it is wise to do so is another question).
- Judgmentality 5y agoWell, the budget in 2009 was $6.5 billion. It seems the taxes are growing for SF at a very high rate, and it would eventually become unsustainable. The taxes are certainly going up faster than population and inflation combined, and it sure seems like we're getting less for more money. I think the reasons are very different though. For small towns it seems to be poor planning, for larger cities it seems to be corruption.
- refurb 5y agoNot sure a $1B street update (literally 2 miles of street in a city with thousands of miles) could be regarded as "affordable" with a $12.6B city budget.
- wonnage 5y agoThe overruns are because they decided to replace a hundred year old sewer system as part of the project. Along with a corruption scandal in the DPW. Once they've gotten to the actual street widening part of the project things seem to move (relatively... to the 10+ year timeframe) quickly, a month or three to build the new bus lanes and repave the remaining lanes.
- 5y ago
- treis 5y ago>Many cities are perpetually broke because they owe more money in maintenance burden (fixing roads, pipes, etc) than they bring in through tax revenue. This is just flat out not true. For all of the ink Strong towns spills they can't point to one municipality that's gone broke from infrastructure costs. The reality is that infrastructure just isn't that expensive in the grand scheme of things. It's 10% or less of the budget. Most of the money goes to cops, courts firemen, teachers, municipal workers and so on.
- jdlshore 5y agoI don’t think it’s necessary for them to point to a city that’s actually gone broke. They just need to demonstrate that the trend is unsustainable.
- xyzzyz 5y agoAnd they done nothing of the sort. I have yet to see a place where spending on infrastructure maintenance is above 20% of municipality budget. Usually it’s around 10%.
- lcpriest 5y agoHave you seen a city with under-maintained infrastructure? https://www.artba.org/2021/03/23/over-220000-u-s-bridges-need-repair-latest-analysis-of-federal-data-finds/ https://www.artba.org/2021/03/23/over-220000-u-s-bridges-nee...
- bcrosby95 5y ago$42bil to fix all structurally deficient bridges in the whole of the USA seems pretty cheap. I was expecting a much larger number considering the doom and gloom here.
- lcpriest 5y agoFirst it's bridges, then it's roading, electric lines, gas lines, water lines, sewerage, civic buildings needing maintenance (schools, hospitals, community centers). There are endless projects that need money to maintain and the current system of sprawl spreads that money too thinly.
- an_opabinia 5y agoI’m going to make the stupidest comment ever here, but it’s obvious to anyone who’s played Sim City that you build out your revenue generating neighborhoods all at once, with all your money. I’m relieved that city managers in some places can do the basic arithmetic there.
- marban 5y agoHold Shift, type fund.
- dmos62 5y agoThe problem is not that the revenue generating neighborhoods are built in iterations but that they're financially unsustainable due to long-term maintenance costs.
- sokoloff 5y agoSo basically the classic “revenue without profits” business model?
- CalRobert 5y agoSim City is a game, not a simulation, and among other things basically ignores parking. https://humantransit.org/2013/05/how-sim-city-greenwashes-parking.html https://humantransit.org/2013/05/how-sim-city-greenwashes-pa...
- eru 5y agoBe aware that this is not about the original Sim City game, but about some newer versions.
- rufus_foreman 5y agoThat's far costlier than the Civilization tactic of letting your enemies build cities and their infrastructure while you build an army to conquer them.
- yawaworht1978 5y agoThis is a very good point, I was always wondering how this is financially maintained, especially because of the key word "low density" in the US, it sure looks beautiful compared to Europe's large cities. Rest assured though, London, Paris, Barcelona all of whom I have lived in, the houses and the apartments are build like a sardine can and the roads are untidy, smelly etc. Bar maybe the tourist areas which are preserved in a better state no matter what, to present themselves in a good light. Looks like there is not enough money either, or it's funneled to the wrong places. At least the US suburbia's look very nice, no doubt I would live in one of these if I ever go to live in the US, these places are unaffordable to mortals in Europe or associated with a large commute to work. Looks like most government everywhere grab deep into people's pockets but don't have deep pockets themselves.
- yhoneycomb 5y agoIt’s not as great as it seems. It’s very isolating, especially if you aren’t old enough to drive yet/don’t have a car
- bjackman 5y agoAs a perpetually urban European, American surburbia does not look beautiful to me. It looks depressing and empty, disconnected. Dense cities have their own problems caused by different economic fuckery, but I'll still choose living in what the article calls a "human scale" environment every time.
- refurb 5y agoPossible solution: you live in a dense urban area and people who want to live in the suburbs live there?
- notacoward 5y agoThat's fine as long as it's sustainable - environmentally, financially, etc. I don't think it is. The wealth transfers from urban areas to the ever-expanding fridge can't continue indefinitely.
- iso1631 5y ago> Many cities are perpetually broke because they owe more money in maintenance burden (fixing roads, pipes, etc) than they bring in through tax revenue. Well in that case they need to increase taxes
- andi999 5y agoWhat would happen if a city defaults?
- N00bN00b 5y agoIn practice debt restructuring and those providing the new/bridging loans (often the same banks that gave the old loans) putting down demands. If the demands aren't accepted, loans aren't provided. If loans aren't provided, salaries won't be paid and city employees will be fired. The demands will include cutting costs, defaulting on pension plans (and dealing with the legal consequences) and the like. Since the city is in default, they won't have the same level of autonomy to accept or reject. Capitalist takeover, basically. Doesn't happen often though. You can find some accounts if you look for it. Detroit has gone through this recently, but there are other cities that dealt with issues like this in the past. New York had it at some point, though I think they narrowly avoided default by accepting the terms of the bankers.
- andi999 5y agoProbably the terms of the bankers lead to modern new Yorks success.