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Could you cite something about your assertion that Indian Muslims have had a raw deal? I have only one data point Azim Premji, who is one of the richest Indians

Could you cite something about your assertion that Indian Muslims have had a raw deal? I have only one data point Azim Premji, who is one of the richest Indians and is a Muslim. I've heard that in some rural areas, banks do give loans on religious lines i.e. Banks in some muslim predominant areas only give loans to muslims and in some Hindu predominant areas to only hindus. Though I heard that the government is trying to curb this. Personally, a lot of it seems to be anti-Indian propaganda. In India, our media tells us that such anti-India propaganda is quite common in Pakistani media. (Yes, I understand the dichotomy that I am dependent on Indian media for a lot of my raw data)

qasar 15y ago
Its only anecdotal, my brother in law is an Indian Muslim from UP. He says the 1-2 blow of being a communal society and being the largest minority doesn't create the best situation. Minorities getting the short end of the stick in terms of education and opportunities isn't exclusive to India (see the US - arguably the best nation on the planet for minorities that still stuggles with this), its just a more central topic because of the sub continent's partition history.
- dimmuborgir 15y ago
  Except politically and militarily, Indian Muslims have outperformed Pakistani/Bangladeshi Muslims in all fields. Just take as fundamental as literacy rate. Indian Muslims have better literacy rate (59%) than Pakistani Muslims (50-55%).
- badclient 15y ago
  If you want to go on anecdotes, my larger fam is happily Indian(from UP even) and Muslim. Sure there is crazy poverty across India but I haven't seen anything that shows it being greater because of a larger conspiracy against Muslims in India. Over the years, I've observed more and more of my Pakistani friends sound hopeless when speaking about their country. This is a distinct change from a few years ago when they would speak with nothing but pride. It's humbling and sad to look at the state of Pakistan as an outsider.
yummyfajitas 15y ago
I'm just a visitor here, but I can believe that Indian Muslims may have a raw deal in some areas. In professional Mumbai or Delhi society, no one seems to care much. You are a banker, a lawyer or a programmer. For the most part, you get your job or start your business via your own professional connections. Personal and professional life is separated very much like it is in the west. Outside of this fairly narrow circle, family/family friends/clannish identity is more or less merged with your professional identity. Want to start a business? There is a good chance you share a last name with your investors and business partners. Want a bank loan? Better be connected to the loan officer. It's also helpful if you are connected to the various government workers who's permission you will need to start your business [1], and you'll get better service if your supplier is your second cousin. The value of your network is a superlinear function of it's size. If Muslims have a smaller network, they are probably disadvantaged. [1] I recently met a guy who wanted to start a business selling eye tracking devices. He scrapped the idea because he needed 34 licenses.
- wisty 15y ago
  Not always. I saw some long article about how outsiders can do better, when you need to be tough. Jews in Europe could lend money, and they would be able to put on their "bankers hat" much easier when they needed to collect debts. There were anecdotes of Chinese-Malays, who would wear Malay clothes when socializing, and traditional Chinese clothes when they were collecting debts; so that their debtors knew not to expect any sympathy. A well-cultivated network might be valuable, but most people's extended social networks have a lot of deadwood.

qasar 15y ago

Its only anecdotal, my brother in law is an Indian Muslim from UP. He says the 1-2 blow of being a communal society and being the largest minority doesn't create the best situation. Minorities getting the short end of the stick in terms of education and opportunities isn't exclusive to India (see the US - arguably the best nation on the planet for minorities that still stuggles with this), its just a more central topic because of the sub continent's partition history.

dimmuborgir 15y ago
Except politically and militarily, Indian Muslims have outperformed Pakistani/Bangladeshi Muslims in all fields. Just take as fundamental as literacy rate. Indian Muslims have better literacy rate (59%) than Pakistani Muslims (50-55%).
badclient 15y ago
If you want to go on anecdotes, my larger fam is happily Indian(from UP even) and Muslim. Sure there is crazy poverty across India but I haven't seen anything that shows it being greater because of a larger conspiracy against Muslims in India. Over the years, I've observed more and more of my Pakistani friends sound hopeless when speaking about their country. This is a distinct change from a few years ago when they would speak with nothing but pride. It's humbling and sad to look at the state of Pakistan as an outsider.

yummyfajitas 15y ago

I'm just a visitor here, but I can believe that Indian Muslims may have a raw deal in some areas. In professional Mumbai or Delhi society, no one seems to care much. You are a banker, a lawyer or a programmer. For the most part, you get your job or start your business via your own professional connections. Personal and professional life is separated very much like it is in the west. Outside of this fairly narrow circle, family/family friends/clannish identity is more or less merged with your professional identity. Want to start a business? There is a good chance you share a last name with your investors and business partners. Want a bank loan? Better be connected to the loan officer. It's also helpful if you are connected to the various government workers who's permission you will need to start your business [1], and you'll get better service if your supplier is your second cousin. The value of your network is a superlinear function of it's size. If Muslims have a smaller network, they are probably disadvantaged. [1] I recently met a guy who wanted to start a business selling eye tracking devices. He scrapped the idea because he needed 34 licenses.

wisty 15y ago
Not always. I saw some long article about how outsiders can do better, when you need to be tough. Jews in Europe could lend money, and they would be able to put on their "bankers hat" much easier when they needed to collect debts. There were anecdotes of Chinese-Malays, who would wear Malay clothes when socializing, and traditional Chinese clothes when they were collecting debts; so that their debtors knew not to expect any sympathy. A well-cultivated network might be valuable, but most people's extended social networks have a lot of deadwood.