7 ms·

It's just a symptom of the neo-pseudo-scientific political system. I can find plenty of articles that "fact check" my gut instinct that deporting illegal immig

by desine 5y ago

It's just a symptom of the neo-pseudo-scientific political system. I can find plenty of articles that "fact check" my gut instinct that deporting illegal immigrants who commit violent crime will reduce the violent crime. A cursory googling will remind me that SF's ban on handguns, licensed carry, and other gun restrictions protect me. After all, if I were in danger, the police average under 8 minutes response time on top priority calls. Every time I visit my family there, and remind myself not to pack sandals because of the number needles on the ground, I pull up my bookmarked journals reminding me that we can't be hard on drug use, even in public, because that makes the problem worse. SF is a fantastic reminder that we cannot trust our gut instinct and logic on how to deal with the problems of society. I look forward to the peer reviewed article explaining why this is just bias and misconception of the status quo. I used to enjoy my memories of playing ultimate frisbee barefoot in Delores park, as a young teenager, with no concern over safety taking public transit. But I must remember that my memories are subject to fallacies of their own. Likewise, those un-scooped poops I used to see were probably human, like they are now, I just didn't realize it then, because I was so naive. The neo-liberal politics of finding, or creating the studies that support the policies that "feel good" and not the ones that actually tackle problems are making the problem worse. And like a snowdrift growing on a ledge, it will continue growing, until it collapses into an avalanche. The longer we let it grow, the more casualties we will see when the correction arrives. I have family that's now leaving the city. Chesa Boudin and his policies was their personal tipping point

joemazerino 5y ago
I wonder how many journalists who wrote these fact checked studies actually live in the area.
astrange 5y ago
I've never seen anyone call Chesa Boudin "neoliberal" before. Actually I haven't even seen anyone call "neoliberal" policies not right-wing enough. Very innovative post.
- desine 5y ago
  You're right, he's a communist from a terrorist family, but I didn't want to get too analytical on the politics. I'm comparing the SF policies of over 20 years ago to now. A lot has changed.
tootie 5y ago
I don't think there are actually any studies cited for any of those. In fact, it's well known that local gun laws are nearly useless. NYC makes it nearly impossible to buy a gun but they are easily bought in bulk an hour or two drive in any direction. Immigrant policy is mostly based on humanitarian grounds. But I'd still be surprised if it's actually a major driver of crime. Violent crime in higher nationwide than every developed nation by a huge margin. Our lack of healthcare, for-profit opioid sales and the endless flow of firearms are the things I'd point to.
- desine 5y ago
  I don't feel the need to deport illegal immigrants who don't commit violent crime. However SF doesn't allow ICE to arrest/serve warrants, even if the person in question has drug charges, violent crime charges, etc. In a city that clearly has taxpaying residents unhappy with the level of crime, they're throwing away free federal resources to deal with those issues. Even if it's not a driving factor, it's a symptom of a law enforcement philosophy that doesn't inspire confidence.
  - tootie 5y ago
    AFAIK they do allow enforcement of criminal warrants for anything violent. They also don't and can't prevent federal agents from doing anything. They just don't actively cooperate or enforce immigration law with their own police. Also worth noting that they adopted sanctuary status in 1989 which preceded their massive rise in prosperity. It seems unlikely to be a factor in problems of the last 5 years.
    - desine 5y ago
      News article: https://dailycaller.com/2020/02/19/san-francisco-not-cooperating-with-ice/ https://dailycaller.com/2020/02/19/san-francisco-not-coopera... The city has a "rapid response" hotline you can call if you see any ICE agents in the city. I'm not sure what their response is. But they definitely don't work with the agency
sceew 5y ago
"The thing I have noticed is when the anecdotes and the data disagree, the anecdotes are usually right. There's something wrong with the way you are measuring it," - Jeff Bezos
jboy55 5y ago
Its funny, the comment adjacent to yours is one where Krakow Poland is shown as a paradise compared to SF. So please, go over to that thread and tell them how safer Krakow could be with unlimited guns, a insane war on drugs and the removal of their welfare system.
- desine 5y ago
  There's other differences between Poland and the United States, but only some of them are things you can vote on.
  - jboy55 5y ago
    I think that's a dog whistle, but please enumerate them.
    - desine 5y ago
      >I think that's a dog whistle By today's standards? Yeah, it probably is. I don't even care anymore though. Homogenous societies have fewer problems of inequality, less crime, more social cohesion. We've known this since Aristotle in Greece, since Marcus Aurelias in Rome, and probably with some other writers I can't think of in between then and now. It's not a statement of any one group being better than another. It's not a statement that I don't enjoy many aspects of our diverse society. It's merely a rebuttal to your argument. Cancel me as you see fit.
      - jboy55 5y ago
        "It's not a statement of any one group being better than another. It's not a statement that I don't enjoy many aspects of our diverse society." If you are coming clean, then please continue, what groups are you talking about? And what attribute are you declaring causes a 'lack of homogeny'?
        desine 5y ago
        > what groups are you talking about? Any divide you wish to draw, I'm not drawing them. SF is more diverse than Krakow when you account for race, place of birth, religion, sexuality/gender identity. >And what attribute are you declaring causes a 'lack of homogeny'? A diverse population has less homogeneity. Keep fishing, but get better bait.
ubertoop 5y ago
"Boudin was born in New York City to Jewish parents. His parents, Kathy Boudin and David Gilbert, were Weather Underground members, both convicted of murder."[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesa_Boudin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesa_Boudin

by desine 5y ago

joemazerino 5y ago

I wonder how many journalists who wrote these fact checked studies actually live in the area.

astrange 5y ago

I've never seen anyone call Chesa Boudin "neoliberal" before. Actually I haven't even seen anyone call "neoliberal" policies not right-wing enough. Very innovative post.

desine 5y ago
You're right, he's a communist from a terrorist family, but I didn't want to get too analytical on the politics. I'm comparing the SF policies of over 20 years ago to now. A lot has changed.

tootie 5y ago

I don't think there are actually any studies cited for any of those. In fact, it's well known that local gun laws are nearly useless. NYC makes it nearly impossible to buy a gun but they are easily bought in bulk an hour or two drive in any direction. Immigrant policy is mostly based on humanitarian grounds. But I'd still be surprised if it's actually a major driver of crime. Violent crime in higher nationwide than every developed nation by a huge margin. Our lack of healthcare, for-profit opioid sales and the endless flow of firearms are the things I'd point to.

desine 5y ago
I don't feel the need to deport illegal immigrants who don't commit violent crime. However SF doesn't allow ICE to arrest/serve warrants, even if the person in question has drug charges, violent crime charges, etc. In a city that clearly has taxpaying residents unhappy with the level of crime, they're throwing away free federal resources to deal with those issues. Even if it's not a driving factor, it's a symptom of a law enforcement philosophy that doesn't inspire confidence.
- tootie 5y ago
  AFAIK they do allow enforcement of criminal warrants for anything violent. They also don't and can't prevent federal agents from doing anything. They just don't actively cooperate or enforce immigration law with their own police. Also worth noting that they adopted sanctuary status in 1989 which preceded their massive rise in prosperity. It seems unlikely to be a factor in problems of the last 5 years.
  - desine 5y ago
    News article: https://dailycaller.com/2020/02/19/san-francisco-not-cooperating-with-ice/ https://dailycaller.com/2020/02/19/san-francisco-not-coopera... The city has a "rapid response" hotline you can call if you see any ICE agents in the city. I'm not sure what their response is. But they definitely don't work with the agency

sceew 5y ago

"The thing I have noticed is when the anecdotes and the data disagree, the anecdotes are usually right. There's something wrong with the way you are measuring it," - Jeff Bezos

jboy55 5y ago

Its funny, the comment adjacent to yours is one where Krakow Poland is shown as a paradise compared to SF. So please, go over to that thread and tell them how safer Krakow could be with unlimited guns, a insane war on drugs and the removal of their welfare system.

desine 5y ago
There's other differences between Poland and the United States, but only some of them are things you can vote on.
- jboy55 5y ago
  I think that's a dog whistle, but please enumerate them.
  - desine 5y ago
    >I think that's a dog whistle By today's standards? Yeah, it probably is. I don't even care anymore though. Homogenous societies have fewer problems of inequality, less crime, more social cohesion. We've known this since Aristotle in Greece, since Marcus Aurelias in Rome, and probably with some other writers I can't think of in between then and now. It's not a statement of any one group being better than another. It's not a statement that I don't enjoy many aspects of our diverse society. It's merely a rebuttal to your argument. Cancel me as you see fit.
    - jboy55 5y ago
      "It's not a statement of any one group being better than another. It's not a statement that I don't enjoy many aspects of our diverse society." If you are coming clean, then please continue, what groups are you talking about? And what attribute are you declaring causes a 'lack of homogeny'?
      - desine 5y ago
        > what groups are you talking about? Any divide you wish to draw, I'm not drawing them. SF is more diverse than Krakow when you account for race, place of birth, religion, sexuality/gender identity. >And what attribute are you declaring causes a 'lack of homogeny'? A diverse population has less homogeneity. Keep fishing, but get better bait.

ubertoop 5y ago

"Boudin was born in New York City to Jewish parents. His parents, Kathy Boudin and David Gilbert, were Weather Underground members, both convicted of murder."[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesa_Boudin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesa_Boudin