11 ms·

Sometimes there is no direct victim. Whose the direct victim of public urination or jay walking? I’m not saying they should be legal it’s just nobody really get

Sometimes there is no direct victim. Whose the direct victim of public urination or jay walking? I’m not saying they should be legal it’s just nobody really gets traumatized if someone crosses the street without right of way.

ergocoder 5y ago
We talked about different kind of crimes. For example, the Walgreen robbing incident is a non-violent crime because nobody confronted the thieves. I have no idea if breaking car window is considered a violent crime.
- NeverFade 5y ago
  Shoplifting to that extent - pouring the contents of several shelves into a garbage bag and taking off - threatens the sustainability of businesses. All these crimes have victims.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    A crime can be non-violent without also being victimless.
    - NeverFade 5y ago
      True, but a person barging into a business with their bike, emptying several shelves into a garbage bag, then barging out, forcefully shoving everyone out of their way - that crosses into a borderline violent crime. I would feel very unsafe if I was at the Wallgreens when that happened. The people in the video certainly felt unsafe as well.
    - smnrchrds 5y ago
      Yeah. Like all white collar crimes. Madoff had many victims, but the fraud was nevertheless a non-violent crime.
  - creamytaco 5y ago
    Besides, acts like this normalize moral and ethical rot. Do you want your kids to witness this behavior week in / week out? What do you think this does to their development? I took my family out of that cesspit years ago, when my little girl starting asking uncomfortable questions stemming from witnessing this sort of behavior.
- justshowpost 5y ago
  Breaking car window is clearly nonviolent property crime presumed no one gets hurt. > because nobody confronted the thieves Not really because of this, but rather because there was no assault to addition to the property crime. Its not absolutely impossible for that robber with bicycle from the Walgreen's video to repent when guard lazily tried to stop him.
rejectedandsad 5y ago
Jaywalking is one thing but public urination victimizes everyone who is near the area.
- monkeybutton 5y ago
  Working from home now, there's nothing I miss less than my twice daily walk through a transit station that absolutely reeks of piss INSIDE from all the homeless folks that spend their time there. I feel sorry for the poor fare collectors that have to spend their days working in that environment.
chrisseaton 5y ago
The whole idea of jaywalking is just absolutely bonkers. Imaging making crossing the road a crime.
- abystander 5y ago
  By that logic, re: outlawing speeding: "imagine making driving a crime."
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    That's not my logic. My logic is 'crossing the road is completely reasonable, doesn't harm anyone, people should be allowed to get to the other side of the road'. That logic doesn't follow to speeding, which is dangerous and selfish. Do you realise it's not a crime in other countries? It's not in the UK and yet we have a lower road-death rate than the US. What are jaywalking laws for anyway?
    - maxlybbert 5y ago
      The claim is that before cars, Americans (and I assume everybody else in every other country) crossed the road wherever they felt like it. But that they were slow to catch on to the dangers of doing that with cars on the road, and car companies were worried about laws in car owners, so they lobbied for laws restricting where people could legally cross ( https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26073797 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26073797 ).
    - alexjplant 5y ago
      > My logic is 'crossing the road is completely reasonable, doesn't harm anyone, people should be allowed to get to the other side of the road'. That logic doesn't follow to speeding, which is dangerous and selfish. Putting oneself in the path of a multi-ton vehicle that doesn't expect you to be there and placing the onus on them to avoid committing vehicular manslaughter when you could use a space explicitly designated for pedestrians is, in fact, dangerous and selfish.
      - 5y ago
justshowpost 5y ago
Urination damages someone's property, either private or municipal. BTW, it appears what SanFran's sanctuary status pays off – there is steadily growing number of open defecation cases https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/City-plans-to-power-wash-the-poop-out-of-the-14878629.php https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/City-plans-to-power-was...
- pope_meat 5y ago
  If that's the case our cities should have fallen apart by now from just the dogs alone.
  - astura 5y ago
    I mean... Urine has destroyed light posts, before, even in SF. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/City-lamp-post-falls-and-urine-was-a-factor-6424634.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/City-lamp-post-falls-... >“We believe there was some contribution of dog or human urine on the base of the pole,” PUC spokesman Tyrone Jue said. “It has actually been an issue for us in the past. We encourage people and dogs alike to do their business in other places, like a proper restroom or one of our fire hydrants, which are stronger and made out of cast iron.” Urine accelerates the corrosion of the metal base of street poles, he said. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/derbyshire/2938749.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/derbyshire/293874... >The six month monitoring survey is costing Derbyshire County Council £75,000. It was commissioned after a report found that years of exposure to the highly acidic urine from dogs can cause the base of the posts to crumple away. >It is part of a national campaign after someone died when a light collapsed.
    - asah 5y ago
      Leaving this here: Human Waste Shuts Down BART Escalators "When work crews pulled open a broken BART escalator at San Francisco's Civic Center Station last month, they found so much human excrement in its works they had to call a hazardous-materials team." https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Human-waste-shuts-down-BART-escalators-3735981.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Human-waste-shuts-dow...

ergocoder 5y ago

We talked about different kind of crimes. For example, the Walgreen robbing incident is a non-violent crime because nobody confronted the thieves. I have no idea if breaking car window is considered a violent crime.

NeverFade 5y ago
Shoplifting to that extent - pouring the contents of several shelves into a garbage bag and taking off - threatens the sustainability of businesses. All these crimes have victims.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  A crime can be non-violent without also being victimless.
  - NeverFade 5y ago
    True, but a person barging into a business with their bike, emptying several shelves into a garbage bag, then barging out, forcefully shoving everyone out of their way - that crosses into a borderline violent crime. I would feel very unsafe if I was at the Wallgreens when that happened. The people in the video certainly felt unsafe as well.
  - smnrchrds 5y ago
    Yeah. Like all white collar crimes. Madoff had many victims, but the fraud was nevertheless a non-violent crime.
- creamytaco 5y ago
  Besides, acts like this normalize moral and ethical rot. Do you want your kids to witness this behavior week in / week out? What do you think this does to their development? I took my family out of that cesspit years ago, when my little girl starting asking uncomfortable questions stemming from witnessing this sort of behavior.
justshowpost 5y ago
Breaking car window is clearly nonviolent property crime presumed no one gets hurt. > because nobody confronted the thieves Not really because of this, but rather because there was no assault to addition to the property crime. Its not absolutely impossible for that robber with bicycle from the Walgreen's video to repent when guard lazily tried to stop him.

rejectedandsad 5y ago

Jaywalking is one thing but public urination victimizes everyone who is near the area.

monkeybutton 5y ago
Working from home now, there's nothing I miss less than my twice daily walk through a transit station that absolutely reeks of piss INSIDE from all the homeless folks that spend their time there. I feel sorry for the poor fare collectors that have to spend their days working in that environment.

chrisseaton 5y ago

The whole idea of jaywalking is just absolutely bonkers. Imaging making crossing the road a crime.

abystander 5y ago
By that logic, re: outlawing speeding: "imagine making driving a crime."
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  That's not my logic. My logic is 'crossing the road is completely reasonable, doesn't harm anyone, people should be allowed to get to the other side of the road'. That logic doesn't follow to speeding, which is dangerous and selfish. Do you realise it's not a crime in other countries? It's not in the UK and yet we have a lower road-death rate than the US. What are jaywalking laws for anyway?
  - maxlybbert 5y ago
    The claim is that before cars, Americans (and I assume everybody else in every other country) crossed the road wherever they felt like it. But that they were slow to catch on to the dangers of doing that with cars on the road, and car companies were worried about laws in car owners, so they lobbied for laws restricting where people could legally cross ( https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26073797 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26073797 ).
  - alexjplant 5y ago
    > My logic is 'crossing the road is completely reasonable, doesn't harm anyone, people should be allowed to get to the other side of the road'. That logic doesn't follow to speeding, which is dangerous and selfish. Putting oneself in the path of a multi-ton vehicle that doesn't expect you to be there and placing the onus on them to avoid committing vehicular manslaughter when you could use a space explicitly designated for pedestrians is, in fact, dangerous and selfish.
    - 5y ago

justshowpost 5y ago

Urination damages someone's property, either private or municipal. BTW, it appears what SanFran's sanctuary status pays off – there is steadily growing number of open defecation cases https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/City-plans-to-power-wash-the-poop-out-of-the-14878629.php https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/City-plans-to-power-was...

pope_meat 5y ago
If that's the case our cities should have fallen apart by now from just the dogs alone.
- astura 5y ago
  I mean... Urine has destroyed light posts, before, even in SF. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/City-lamp-post-falls-and-urine-was-a-factor-6424634.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/City-lamp-post-falls-... >“We believe there was some contribution of dog or human urine on the base of the pole,” PUC spokesman Tyrone Jue said. “It has actually been an issue for us in the past. We encourage people and dogs alike to do their business in other places, like a proper restroom or one of our fire hydrants, which are stronger and made out of cast iron.” Urine accelerates the corrosion of the metal base of street poles, he said. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/derbyshire/2938749.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/derbyshire/293874... >The six month monitoring survey is costing Derbyshire County Council £75,000. It was commissioned after a report found that years of exposure to the highly acidic urine from dogs can cause the base of the posts to crumple away. >It is part of a national campaign after someone died when a light collapsed.
  - asah 5y ago
    Leaving this here: Human Waste Shuts Down BART Escalators "When work crews pulled open a broken BART escalator at San Francisco's Civic Center Station last month, they found so much human excrement in its works they had to call a hazardous-materials team." https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Human-waste-shuts-down-BART-escalators-3735981.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Human-waste-shuts-dow...